Health and Safety At The Get-Out

[Davetp]

I was doing the get-out for my last show at the school. The schools health and Safety officer turned up as i was climbing down a set of "Fixed ladders" from our patch board and dimmer units.
I jumped of of the last rung and onto the floor. it was like a foot of the ground. The H&S officer came over to me and said "were you in a rush" i said no i just thought i should be safe and turn of the power to the units before unpatching stuff.
The trip switch was at stage level

I was then moving flats to the back wall of the stage to Store Them i then realized that the Smoke detector had been ripped from the wall and was dangling by a small cable. i said to the H&S Officer and he said "oh it deosent really matter right now"
I WAS LIKE OMG (not to his face)
ITS A SMOKE DETECTOR ON A STAGE WITH HIGH VOLTAGE POWER!!!

 

[DuckJordan]

Actually smoke detectors are low voltage

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[porkchop]

No really sure what the point of your story is, but it sounds like a well informed H&S guy. Lots of crews forgo common sense safety practices to shave a few minute off the load-out, and I know of at least one company that makes a noticeable effort to reduce the number of managers that should know better on site during the out because faster outs are cheaper. These reasons and more are why H&S should be there asking you if you're going too fast to be safe.

As far as the smoke detector goes he's not too far off of reality. You can run them off battery (9V in the US at least) so the electrical danger is pretty low. This show is going to have to be loaded out at some point in time and telling everyone to leave the building while the smoke detector is fixed if pretty extreme. Also, You've got the lights up and lots of techs on hand, so hopefully if there is an issue someone will notice it rapidly. Given those assumptions the H&S officer is mostly worried about you having the smoke detector in place the next time you have audience members (who have a reasonable expectation that the facility is safe for them to occupy). So he can be a little nonchalant about it because of course you'll have the smoke detector fixed well before the next time you have audience members.... RIGHT???

 

[Dionysus]

I agree with porkchop, fire safety is very important however one smoke or heat detector knocked off of its mounting its hardly top priority. If it were damaged or disconnected the alarm system would be giving a "trouble", anyone near the panel would be very annoyed. Chances are it is functioning just fine (seen it enough).

But yes IT SHOULD be repaired as soon as possible. Very important. More important that everyone is being safe during the tear-down.

Actually smoke detectors are low voltage

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ITS A SMOKE DETECTOR ON A STAGE WITH HIGH VOLTAGE POWER!!! is what the OP said, not a high-voltage smoke detector. "On a stage with" as in there is high voltage ON STAGE, therefore the OP considers the detector of higher importance due to the presence of high-voltage.
Then again larger electrical services don't tend to start fires, they do arc-flash or go "kaboom" however.

 

[Davetp]

its an internal school wired Fire Safety Smoke Detector and it is linked to every one in the school.

 

[Davetp]

so it has a mains current running threw it

 

[DuckJordan]

so it has a mains current running threw it

No it really doesn't....

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[StradivariusBone]

so it has a mains current running threw it

Our system is in a school and it has a panel that has two 24V transformers in it that lowers the voltage to run the sensors. The sensors are digital components and it makes more sense to run low VDC to the sensors than running 110 VAC and having several transformers at various points. You can also run low voltage stuff outside of conduits (or at least you used to) which makes connecting and repairing faulty sensors a lot easier than if they were mains power. At most it will throw an alarm code on your FACP and alert your fire company.

However, if you were to fall from a fixed access ladder you're looking at anywhere from a bump to being dead, depending on the height and how you fell. Proper practice with fixed access ladders is to maintain three points of contact at all times until you're on terra firma. I yell at my tech theatre students frequently for climbing on ladders like they're jungle gyms.

 

[Les]

I know that safety guys can be a pain (I am a safety guy!), but at least this incident has started a dialog and thought process.

Technically, even 120v (or 240v) isn't recognized as high voltage. Regardless, everyone is pretty much right that the alarm system in the school is run at low voltage (probably 12-24VDC). I know that the central smoke alarms in my house are fed 120v, but it's a small system so the extra copper doesn't matter all that much. It's also more simple to install, so time = money.

You're right that a sensor (actually, it was probably a horn/strobe) hanging off the wall would be a concern, but more to life safety when the building is occupied rather than a shock hazard. He could have been more detailed in his approach in explaining why he reacted (or didn't) the way he did, but basically it's not a reason to take immediate action.

I'm not sure what the safety guy was commenting on as pertaining to the ladder, but it might have been a combination of things. Maybe you're so comfortable on the ladder that you really climb or descend too quickly without thinking about it. Maybe he just didn't like the jump. He's right to feel that way - it could do some real damage if you land wrong and roll your ankle from even 1' off the ground.

I wish we had more H&S presence at the schools here in the states. You wouldn't believe what they get away with, and a lot of bad habits start right then and there.

 

[Davetp]

Yeah we are quite big on H&S
a lot of time goes into it here