Health and Safety gone stupid!

I

iAdam

Member
Hi all,
I'm a high school student in the UK as some of you may know..
Recently, ive been told that im not aloud to turn the dimmer packs on and off..

Our dimmers are connected direct to a fuse box which serves the dimmers, and only the dimmers.
All that I need to do is to switch off the dimmers at the main red 'all' fuse, and boom, they're off.
It seems however, that this is unsafe?

Someone please tell me of any risks that could present themselves by turning off a fuse box?

Thanks.. adam.
 
2 scenarios:

1) Permanently installed racks of assorted sizes, with local main breakers. We never turn off the breakers. The lighting control system is either the "performance" console (Ion, outside desk) or an ETC Unison system for house lights, work lights, etc... When the performance system is not active, Unison controls what's needed, thus we never need to kill rack/pack main breakers.

2) Temporary system with a company switch tie-in, as well as rental/touring racks and power distribution. If shutting down for more then an overnight, it's the tour electricians call to kill main power, and/or my decision at which point I verify there is no load on any dimmers (control signal at zero or off), then will turn off the house company switch. No concern about arc flash in this instance as there is no load on the system.

So the question becomes if you have permanently installed packs/rack, why are you in need of killing the main breakers to the dimmers ?.
 
We have to turn off at the breakers due to the fact that they will not get used for weeks apart. The dimmer packs we have are permanent installed, however, they are rather old so the only way to turn them off, is at the breakers.. I will post a picture of the setup tomorrow.
 
No, you don't really have to turn off the breakers. If the control system is not sending a control signal, there should be no dimmers active. In many racks if there's no valid control signal, the rack fan will not run. Thus the only thing in the rack that's powered is the control module and that can run 24/7 with no issues. If you arein an area that't susceptible to lightning strikes, then I could see powering down, but otherwise no.

As well, circuit breakers are not switches and are not designed to be powered on/off repeatedly. You'r better off leaving them on.

FWIW, One of my spaces has a legacy Sensor 96 dimmer rack. As long as the console is off, the fan doesn't run (no DMX). I only power down in August to clean dimmers and the rack filters, otherwise it is powered up from late May to October with no usage.
 
Last edited:
My space is like steves, I only power down my rack to clean it or if I have to swap dimmers or do maintenance. Otherwise it's on 24/7


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
 
iAdam,
I understand your frustration, however I think you are on the wrong side of this.
Especially since you are a High School Student.
I would take this as a learning experience, and move forward with knowledge that you did not possess before.

In any case, leave the breakers on, and use DMX to turn off your dimmers.
Welcome to the forum and keep asking questions!
 
Now, I've never felt like testing this while the dimmers disconnected from the board, but I know that I was once shocked by a dimmer I had set at 0% and then tried to rewire a plug on. So, I would disagree that killing data is enough.
 
^ Yeah but I think everyone here would agree, and has stated at one point in time or another, that maintenance on dimmers should only be preformed while the power is turned off and proper Lock-out, tag-out procedures were followed.

In the case of the OP they are just looking to make sure that no (or the least possible) power is being used to save on equipment and utility costs. In THAT case I see no problem with just letting the racks be controlled from the board. Though again if you have to do ANY maintenance on the dimmer then turn off power, follow lock-out, tag-out, and make sure you have someone qualified doing the maintenance.
 
gafftapegreenia said:
Now, I've never felt like testing this while the dimmers disconnected from the board, but I know that I was once shocked by a dimmer I had set at 0% and then tried to rewire a plug on. So, I would disagree that killing data is enough.
Click to expand...

That it due to how dimmers work. They actually leak power until there is resistance on the line. This us why you have to ghost load small loads.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
The reason you're asking this question is the same exact reason that you're being told you can't do this. As has been mentioned there is a huge amount of power being controlled by that breaker, and many people underestimate that and just assume that it's just like any other breaker they've every used. With more power you have more potential for things to go wrong, and when you're talking about a main disconnect it could be catastrophically wrong. A qualified person might notice something that's a potential danger that you might not realize is an issue.
On a more realistic note (and I'm not saying this applies directly to you, but when organisations are thinking about policy...) often times people that aren't really qualified throw the breaker in an inappropriate manor and that has the possibility to damage the breaker. A very common one is to stomp down on a breaker that is low to the ground. Not only does this even further increase the risk of the breaker malfunctioning, but you can also break of the arm used to throw the breaker. For reference the "cheap" replacement breaker for the dimmer racks I used last would run you about $4,000 just for the part.
You can decide either way on if the breakers should be turned off or left on, but in your situation I wouldn't get too worked up about not being allowed to throw the switch.
 
For what it's worth, I've been knocking around this building for twenty-odd years, and I wouldn't dream of switching off the breaker to the dimmer racks; I'd get an electrician for that if it were something like major maintenance. I'd only do it myself if it were literally an emergency, like a fire or serious injury. It can't be over-emphasized: big breakers are dangerous.
 
gafftapegreenia said:
Now, I've never felt like testing this while the dimmers disconnected from the board, but I know that I was once shocked by a dimmer I had set at 0% and then tried to rewire a plug on. So, I would disagree that killing data is enough.
Click to expand...

NFPA 70E Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace, says: TURN OFF THE ELECTRICITY BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT TO WORK ON THE EQUIPMENT. Use Lock-Out Tag-Out equipment as necessary to prevent someone else from energizing the equipment without your permission. This is one of the reasons why there is a master power disconnect for the dimmer rack, and individual breakers on each dimmer output. The British Standards have a similar clause in their electrical code, too.
 
marmer said:
I'd get an electrician for that
Click to expand...
What do you consider an electrician? I'm about to be a senior in college, electrician/ wannabe lighting designer, haven't had a lot of classroom training in electrics, currently master electricianing a summerstock (which has turned into its own safety nightmare). I'm trying to be cognizant of of that dangerous zone of not knowing what you dont know. Is it industry standard in theater for electricians to be certified electricians? Or just cause I'm an "electrician" with a BA in theater and some resume work to back it up count? Cause I'm discovering quickly the vastness of my lack of knowledge in certain things, and I'd hate to let an employer to do the same.
 
someguy98457 said:
What do you consider an electrician? I'm about to be a senior in college, electrician/ wannabe lighting designer, haven't had a lot of classroom training in electrics, currently master electricianing a summerstock (which has turned into its own safety nightmare). I'm trying to be cognizant of of that dangerous zone of not knowing what you dont know. Is it industry standard in theater for electricians to be certified electricians? Or just cause I'm an "electrician" with a BA in theater and some resume work to back it up count? Cause I'm discovering quickly the vastness of my lack of knowledge in certain things, and I'd hate to let an employer to do the same.
Click to expand...


Unless you have a certification, your work wouldn't really hold up if something were to happen. Obviously if something happened and a proffessional did it, there would still be issues but an "amateur" just makes the situaion worse. Just because you are an "electrician" in that you work with lighting which uses electricity, doesn't mean you're qualified to wire a building etc... I think Marmer's statement was along the lines of when there's that much power flowing through something I don't want anybody except people who do that as their profession and know what they're doing to touch it. Just to be safe. For what it's worth, I know people who've been "master electrician" for a show but wouldn't have had the forethought or training to LOTO a rack before trying to pull a dimmer out of it.

Long story short, I wouldn't advertise yourself as an electrician unless you've take courses or a certification and have real official training. I have done some work rewiring fixtures Etc... and list it as something I've done but make it clear anything more than A, B, or C would be outside of my realm of knowledge.
 
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