Help for a novice, please: stripping paint

M

Mike in Philly

Member
feel free to ignore me, but I ran across your site while trying to research details about bipin bases and figured people here know what I need to know. I am not in theatre.
The quick version, I need clarity about lamp and lamp base standards, etc., specifically what bulb to use in a Osram Sylvania TP-220 G9.5 lamp holder that is short and between 500 and 750W.
I am trying to use high watt bulbs as often used in stage lighting to heat painted surfaces for paint removal. I once bought a hand-held device using a 600w DYS (I believe) "used by photographers and auto body mechanics" that worked nicely, but cost over $100 and didn't last at all (the device, not just the lamps) under persistent use,
so I decided to do some modifications....
which lead me into the unknown world of bulb shapes, the difference between 9.5 vs other size bases, the difference between a "G" and a "GZ", etc., causing me to scratch my head at trying to get the correct lamp and the correct lamp socket together...
I succeeded in getting a working combo through supplies at "BulbAmerica", but again the lamp holder degraded after a few bulbs, heat corrosion at the contacts. So I purchased the above lamp holder that looked like what I wanted...except my GZ bulbs don't fit (You can chuckle)
The advantage of a lamp heat source for stripping paint is two fold,
first) heat guns using hot air are inefficient, and worse, hot air can blow into cracks and start unseen fires, eventually causing a major house fire
second) using the proper wattage one can get enough heat to soften the paint without getting it so hot that it vaporizes lead, creating a health hazard
The only manufactured and marketed devices for painters are large box shaped things good for stripping large flat areas, not trim, like on my ~1895 built house.
So if someone wants to not only help me with a suggestion, but start making a prototype to put on the market maybe it would sell.
Thanks, even if you want to ignore this wordy mess....
 
This sounds like a @ship question. He loves specialty projects.
 
Before taking the next step, do a little research on the lifespan of the lamps you are looking at. Most lamps used in theater are expensive due to the precision in the placement of the filaments and this placement may also compromise lifespan. Sounds like you are more interested in heat output. If this is the case you may be better off looking at some of the long life industrial lamps. Also, lamps for theatrical use generally operate at a color temperature (such as 3200k) which compromises life. Industrial lamps usually throw more heat at the expense of the color.
 
JD said:
Before taking the next step, do a little research on the lifespan of the lamps you are looking at. Most lamps used in theater are expensive due to the precision in the placement of the filaments and this placement may also compromise lifespan. Sounds like you are more interested in heat output. If this is the case you may be better off looking at some of the long life industrial lamps. Also, lamps for theatrical use generally operate at a color temperature (such as 3200k) which compromises life. Industrial lamps usually throw more heat at the expense of the color.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the suggestions. They are sound advice, but I'm not sure where to go with it,
This saga began by looking for some kind of heat lamp on the McMaster-Carr industrial supply site (like Grainger, the ultimate hardware store online). The device I obtained, marketed for uses as above, had a DYS (I think) 600W bulb. Since then, most of my looking has sent me into the theatre light realm.
 
Have you looked at a heat gun? More heat over a smaller area.
 
That's a pretty standard theatrical socket. Lamps that will go in it include the GLA (575 watt long life), GLC (575 watt normal life, brighter than the GLA), GLD (750w normal life), GLE (750w normal life), FEL (1000w normal life). Since it sounds like you want the light to only hit very specific areas I wouldn't bother doing anything with the socket you bought. I would buy an old altman 360q off of ebay and put one of the above lamps in it. Then you could put it on a stand, or bolt it to a plywood base and use the framing shutters so the light only hit specific areas.
 
JChenault said:
Have you looked at a heat gun? More heat over a smaller area.
Click to expand...
I use the heat lamp very close to the surface.
Heat guns take more energy (1250W) (lots of inefficiency in heating blowing air), have a considerably greater chance of causing fires, and can heat leaded paint to the point of vaporizing the lead, necessitating either dangerous work conditions or the use of more than a particulate mask,
but thanks for the thoughts.
The heat lamps designed for painters use quartz lamps like quartz bulb radiant space heaters, but they are too big and bulky for my needs.
 
Lots of questions in trying to understand what you are doing even if general concept of heat lamp over heat gun is understood.
First are these lamps used as a portable IR heat source or more of a fixed source of light in the paint booth?
Have you tried IR heaters? I have one running at the moment in the garage and it’s more than enough to heat the room and often I will put something painted under it. IR heaters can be anything from a ceiling mounted heater thru a R-40 heater lamp one might keep food warm with. Made one for my Wife’s bath tub so as to keep the water worm even. Dental curing low voltage MR-16 lamps also come to mind as another option if portable.
DYS lamp, only rated for 75 hours average life in as per above. There is I am sure paint curing fixtures and lamps on the market in remembering such lamp notes.
Can you take a photo of what you are using to cure the paint and more details of the situation? Yea... the GX, G, GZY etc definitions are often problematic until you get the definitions and are ready to understand the why. I have them if you really really want to know but overall the extra letters mean that the 9.5mm spacing between pins will than in extra letters specify some differences in pin design. Stuff like one pin larger than the other I’m sure you saw.
Big problem comes up about what you are doing in framing the proper advice for a solution. Mark from Osram/Sylvania is also a member and one of his assistants I know well, started his trade in working in that division. Easy enough to answer but more details are needed. That plus you can’t safely just change a lamp and socket in general without considering some fixture issues.

Safety first so yea, nobody is ignoring you and they never would. More details please to get the correct solution though.
 
ship said:
Lots of questions in trying to understand what you are doing even if general concept of heat lamp over heat gun is understood.
First are these lamps used as a portable IR heat source or more of a fixed source of light in the paint booth?
Have you tried IR heaters? I have one running at the moment in the garage and it’s more than enough to heat the room and often I will put something painted under it. IR heaters can be anything from a ceiling mounted heater thru a R-40 heater lamp one might keep food warm with. Made one for my Wife’s bath tub so as to keep the water worm even. Dental curing low voltage MR-16 lamps also come to mind as another option if portable.
DYS lamp, only rated for 75 hours average life in as per above. There is I am sure paint curing fixtures and lamps on the market in remembering such lamp notes.
Can you take a photo of what you are using to cure the paint and more details of the situation? Yea... the GX, G, GZY etc definitions are often problematic until you get the definitions and are ready to understand the why. I have them if you really really want to know but overall the extra letters mean that the 9.5mm spacing between pins will than in extra letters specify some differences in pin design. Stuff like one pin larger than the other I’m sure you saw.
Big problem comes up about what you are doing in framing the proper advice for a solution. Mark from Osram/Sylvania is also a member and one of his assistants I know well, started his trade in working in that division. Easy enough to answer but more details are needed. That plus you can’t safely just change a lamp and socket in general without considering some fixture issues.

Safety first so yea, nobody is ignoring you and they never would. More details please to get the correct solution though.
Click to expand...

You are all being very kind and helpful and I thank you.
This project is for a portable IR heat source, for softening paint on interior and exterior surfaces of a house.
Actually the first I heard of this concept was a pro painter who had modified a quartz lamp space heater, and I used one like that myself. The only thing I know produced and marketed for this use is most similar to a quartz lamp space heater. But it is big and useful for larger surfaces like the side of a house, not trim work, not around windows, etc. (and it costs $400+, which is a fair amount in my budget).
A 375 W R-40 does work with some things, but it is not quite powerful enough and is likewise bulky and unfocused if trying to strip paint from 2 inch wide molding.
Actually a simple 500W work lamp put on the surface will work sometimes, depending on the properties of the paint.

The thing I originally purchased through McMaster-Carr worked well enough, and it really makes scraping through 100 years of paint layers pretty easy and the life of the bulb was satisfactory. What wasn't satisfactory was the housing, which just degraded over the life of a couple of bulbs. I wasn't going to pay $125 for a device that would last less than a month.
The "short" version is that I used the aluminum housing of a 500 W work lamp to enclose the socket, and then had the issue with breakdown of the contacts inside the socket over time, and then I stumbled onto this lamp holder/socket that seemed it was just what i wanted...until I discovered the mismatch between the GZ9.5 bulbs I have and the G9.5 lamp holder....

Someone suggested just getting a used theatre light can with "barn doors", and maybe that will be the best thing after all, but I think you can see how "one thing led to another" with my adventure above.
I'm old school and like to see things with my eyes and touch them with my fingers, all of this ordering things over the internet has it's problems. yes, one can get virtually anything they want, but unless you know exactly what it is, one can get a lot of "Anything" without it being what you want.

One can buy a heat gun anywhere. they are relatively inexpensive, they do work though they have major problems as i described above, and they are well known. Using IR (including just the IR that comes with a high intensity bulb) is not as well known and the only devices commercially sold go for $400 and nobody stocks them. Nobody knows about them so no one stocks them in the store, no one stocks them in the store, so no one knows about them. If somebody would design something that could sell under $100 it might be quite profitable-though I don't know how much it would cost to get it through regulatory agencies and such.
Thank you all again.
 
A theater could allow you to use a higher wattage lamp than the 375 W R-40 you mentioned but you may not find higher wattage lamps specificly designed for heat. The barn doors would help reduce the spill. An elipsoidal such as the 360Q suggested by @techieman33 is designed to focus light but not heat, so I doubt that would work very well.

specifically what bulb to use in a Osram Sylvania TP-220 G9.5 lamp holder that is short and between 500 and 750W
Click to expand...
Not sure how to quantify "short", but I find a range of lamps that fit a G9.5 lamp holder that are 4-4.5 inches long on bulbs.com. Of the options on that page, I'd probably try the 500 W EHD for your application, but I have no experience with this particular lamp type (I have used 750W EHG).

I understand that the 575W GLA/GLC are comparable to the 750W EHG as used in theatrical elipsoidals due to filament design and look forward to trying them next time I relamp the instruments I use (most likely the lone life GLA), but efficiency for theater does not nessisarily mean best for your situation.
 
BillConnerASTC said:
This is interesting: http://makezine.com/projects/infrared-paint-remover-v2/
Click to expand...
Thanks for looking that up. yes, a variation on the theme. I'll look into it more, later.
As I said before, I started out with a manufactured device that was advertised for this purpose among others and then tried to improve it.
I must say, I have come to appreciate why "just a little metal and glass" can cost so much, a lot of Edison's 99% perspiration needs to be compensated!
FWIW, this was my starting point:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#heat-lamps/=x5y3c4
 
I actually can't find what I was looking for and used. Maybe they started too many fires, but basically a coil like an electric range element with a metal hood - about 6 X 12 x 2 - on a handle. Worked great - carbide scraper in one hand (carbide scrapers are fantastic) and heat plate in the other. I saw the broiler element in a two man operation - one with large cookie sheet with two handles and element; the other with scrapers. Very efficient.

I stripped our house - 30 X 36 X two tall stories with a gazillion windows (well - 36 or so) - mostly with the heat plate by myself.
 
Good for more details, now we are all on the same plane in understanding what you are trying to do.
I grew up in a large 1914 house where when bought, every room and hallway was one shade of green or another especially on the oak molding. (Much of it no doubt lead paint in layers but beyond the scope of discussion). Every weekend at home we would spend stripping paint by way of chemicals where needed and especially a few 1.5Kw Heat Mater heat guns with nozzles to flare out the heat. Got to be quite the family challenge to see who could strip off the longest paint layer on a run of molding. Same brand of heat guns with different tips to them for heat shink I use today. Mostly lucky when the old molding their layers of varnish or what ever used originally, didn’t bond with the paint.
Don’t understand the problem with heat guns but back to the IR sources. Incandescent filament lamps only project a small amount of light in the IR range, some color correction I’m sure can be done but for the most part it’s all about the heat from the filiment and the focus of the beam in helping, adding up to efficiency say for a heat source. Length of filament won’t matter much so EHD or GLC or FEL won’t matter for more efficient. Wattage of lamp though plays a role as per the higher the wattage the more IR and heat it generates. For the most part, as per Bill’s great link, you will be doing the same with a PAR can as you could do with a hot plate in using the generated light and heat to get the paint warm enough.
If wanted, I can search for a few IR lamps that are heater lamps, but mostly they from memory are dual ended lamps and or very high wattage. The MR-16 dental curing lamps I mentioned have a focused beam of light which in light beam will cross at a specific distance from the filament and are also optimized for heat generation. Say if doing detail work, something like this might be worth looking into for refined work. Say the same use I would pull out a little princess Weller #6966c for use on.
Let us all know given the link how it’s going and what you do or if any more info is needed. I have a mega lamp base and can do a search on heat generating lamps. For instance in probably discontinued:

#64743HT
Osram #54584
CL, Quartz Spec. Purpose Heat Lamp
1 Kw
T-3
LCL 60.3mm
G 9.5
Any Burn Pos
3,200 K
300

#54590
Osram #54590
CL, Quartz Spec. Purpose Heat Lamp
1 Kw
T-3
LCL 60.3mm
G 9.5
Any Burn Pos. w. proper cooling
2,950 K
25,000 Lum
2,000

FRN (64773)
(10/08) Osram #54588
CL, Quartz UV heat Lamp
2 Kw
T-21.7mm
cc-8
LCL 77.5mm
G 9.5
90% electric conv. to UV Radiant Heat, Any Burn Pos.
3,200 K
56,500 Lum
200hr

FRN (Disc. see G-9.5)
Osram #54588
(#64773) CL, Quartz Spec. Purp. Heat Lamp
2 Kw
T-8
cc-8
LCL 77.5mm
G 9.5
(7x30mmFilmt) Any Burn Pos. (IR Heat Projector)
3,200 K
56,500 Lum
200

2500T8Q
(10/08) Osram #54548
CL, Quartz UV Heat Lamp
2.5 Kw
T-27mm
cc-8
LCL 77.5mm
G 9.5
90% electric conv. to UV Radiant Heat, Any Burn Pos.
3,200 K
75,000 Lum
300hr

FRN (Disc. see G-9.5)
Osram #54548
CL, Quartz, Spec. Purp. Heating
2.5Kw
T-8
cc-8
LCL 77.5mm
GY 9.5
T-8/T-6 Fused Silica
3,200 K
55,000 Lum
200

2000T8Q/120V/G22
(3/07) Osram #54537
CL, Quartz Spec. Purpose Heat Lamp
2 Kw
T-25.37mm
12.2x35mm
LCL 79.37mm
G 22
90% Elect. Energy Converted to Radiant Heat, Any Pos.
3,200 K
45,000 Lum
2,000

2000 T8Q (Disc.)
Osram #54577
CL, Quartz Spec. Purpose Heat Lamp
2 Kw
T-8
cc-8
LCL 77.5mm
G 22
Any Pos, (IR Heat Projector)
3,200 K
56,500 Lum
350
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Note above is Osram brand - this is only because over the last like 16 years since I have started the table on such lamps I have seen in general catalogues such lamps listed. This is also only single ended lamps with a bi-pin base, there is other types of lamps I didn’t search.
 
Having stripped many layers off interior and exterior of old house, having tried most known methods and maybe some unknown, I agree I would avoid the heat gun except on sash removed and flat on a work surface away from the house. Of all the methods, really good carbide bladed scrapers with the heat plate was best for exterior siding and trim. As for lead, I was diagnosed with lead poisoning at the peak of the work, and I'm certain it is simply ingesting the dust, and whether just cold scraping or using a torch, it doesn't matter.

The heat plate I used was under $100 and still works two houses and 30+ years later, no lamps. I'll look for manufacturer and see if still available.

Found it:http://www.hardwareworld.com/Electric-Paint-Remover-pPFKIZS.aspx

Also on Amazon as not currently available. Warner Electric Paint Remover

Oops - not available there either. Look around - great tool.
 
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