How Much Cable?

[Footer]

I'm looking at adding a bit to our cable inventory. One of my employees used to loan us his XLR if we were double booked but that road is no longer an option. Most of the gigs we are doing are standard bands. To make things more interesting, we need to have enough gear to cover two five piece bands (30ish inputs) plus an opener in two different rooms at the same time. We have plenty of sub snakes and all that fun stuff. We have a good deal of 20's, 15's, 10's, and 5's. I'm looking at a good amount of cable to make up for what we can no longer borrow.

What should I buy? What is the minimum amount of XLR you will take to a gig and in what lengths?

 

[Clifford]

What did you borrow from the employee?

 

[Footer]

What did you borrow from the employee?

I don't actually know how much he brought in. I was not tracking audio gear at the time like I am now.

 

[shiben]

I'm looking at adding a bit to our cable inventory. One of my employees used to loan us his XLR if we were double booked but that road is no longer an option. Most of the gigs we are doing are standard bands. To make things more interesting, we need to have enough gear to cover two five piece bands (30ish inputs) plus an opener in two different rooms. We have plenty of sub snakes and all that fun stuff. We have a good deal of 20's, 15's, 10's, and 5's. I'm looking at a good amount of cable to make up for what we can no longer borrow. What should I buy? What is the minimum amount of XLR you will take to a gig and in what lengths?

We usually did 25 input shows, so we always stocked 25x 25', 8x 50', 2x 100' in XLR, 2x 4 chan snakes that were I want to say 50'? long, and a 16 chan snake that was however long it was, to tie back to the stage floor box. I personally dont see the point of having shorter than 20/25' lengths of cable for anything other than 4 pin DMX, as I like having more rather than less than I need...

 

[chausman]

We usually did 25 input shows, so we always stocked 25x 25', 8x 50', 2x 100' in XLR, 2x 4 chan snakes that were I want to say 50'? long, and a 16 chan snake that was however long it was, to tie back to the stage floor box. I personally dont see the point of having shorter than 20/25' lengths of cable for anything other than 4 pin DMX, as I like having more rather than less than I need...

I think longer then about 50' is too long. Thats enough to cross most standard size stages, and even then, there is usually inputs on either side of the stage. In The Egg, 50' will make it completely across the stage. (or almost to the grid) When do you ever need 100' XLR for audio? I like having at least a few sub-25' cables, for things like choir Mics that are running into a floor pocket center stage. 10' is almost perfect to have as little slack onstage as possible, whereas 25' just gets in the way.

 

[shiben]

I think longer then about 50' is too long. Thats enough to cross most standard size stages, and even then, there is usually inputs on either side of the stage. In The Egg, 50' will make it completely across the stage. (or almost to the grid) When do you ever need 100' XLR for audio? I like having at least a few sub-25' cables, for things like choir Mics that are running into a floor pocket center stage. 10' is almost perfect to have as little slack onstage as possible, whereas 25' just gets in the way.

You never know. If you for some reason need a mic hanging over the audience in some place lacking a hard run, 100' is good. Need another clearcom line to the booth? 100' is useful. Also, our house sat 1100 and had I want to say a 50' wide opening, so if you wanted to go from DSL to DSR without crossing the front of the stage, you needed more than 50'. Also, if you need to run to an outside press box or some other special consideration, 100' can be nice. Also, I have never seen, been in, or otherwise had any experience with said Egg, nor to I totally understand why its called such. I think I saw a picture of the stage once, but it was just a stage and lacked a scale to it. Anyhow, we had a winder to use on cables longer than 50'. And my theory on sub 20' XLR cables is thus: If it wants to be shorter and its too long, coil it neatly and audiences ignore it. If it wants to be longer and its too short, you are SOL. Especially when you run low on cable. But YMMV in this case...

 

[chausman]

In those situations, yes 100' might be nice, but I'd rather use a few cables then deal with 100' for a few special occasions.

 

[shiben]

In those situations, yes 100' might be nice, but I'd rather use a few cables then deal with 100' for a few special occasions.

Is that this "Egg" we are discussing? Who in the hell put a theater in that: how do you get from the loading dock to the stage?

 

[derekleffew]

...Who in the hell put a theater in that?...

TWO theatres, actually. As with many endeavors of architectural achievement, it's a long and sordid tale. Do you like stories about gladiators, Timmy? ROCKY'S LAST ERECTION.

As for the ovoid spaceship that is the Egg, not a state building at all but a performing arts center, it continues and expands on the same leitmotifs that pervade the rest of the complex: disorientation, alienation, and confusion. Many visitors have remarked that "once inside...all sense of elevation and direction disappears, and a vague sense of claustrophobia can creep in"; while even the building's marketing manager conceded that "a feeling of bewilderment is not unusual"--and "chuckled" that it took her six months of working there every day before she stopped getting lost.

 

[MrsFooter]

Is that this "Egg" we are discussing? Who in the hell put a theater in that: how do you get from the loading dock to the stage?

The legend that floats around is that the little Japanese man who designed the place was sitting at his breakfast table and looked at his egg sitting in its little cup and said, "That's what it will look like." I question the story, however, because I have a hard time believing that this place was conceived without large amounts of acid. There's also an urban legend that there were originally six eggs standing around the world, but that all but ours have fallen down.

As far as how we get shows in, the loading dock is actually seven floors below where that picture is taken. There's a 10'ish x 20'ish x 25'ish (I don't have exact dimensions in front of me) freight elevator that stops at the loading dock and both theatres. Nothing to it. (Until the freight ****s the bed and then we have to load in the entire show through the round passenger elevator only 8'ish in diameter or, for the gear that doesn't fit in the passenger elevator, carry it up something like 12 stories of tightly winding escape stairs.) It's an odd space with its own unique challenges, but once you get over its idiosyncrasies its a pretty fun place to work.

And now, back to a discussion about audio cable.

 

[rochem]

Personally, I would say it's irresponsible to not have at least a few 100' XLRs floating around. I commonly need to cross over cables, either by dumping into the pit or running on battens, and having the extra length of a 100' is far better than being 5' short of where you need to go. Also, for the times when I'm prepping cable before actually being able to load in a show, it's much easier to throw a 100' XLR at the run that you just measured out to be 70' - because inevitably, you'll need to take an unexpected turn with the cable path and the 75' will be just a bit too short. It also gives you a little more flexibility in case something needs to move to the opposite side of the stage but you don't have time to pull up the cable and re-run it to the opposite side of the stage.

 

[DaveySimps]

I do quite a bit of freelance work for a regional sound company that does a lot of festival work. A typical day would be two A list headliners, and two opening acts on each stage. They stock mostly 20' cable (like you they have plenty of sub snakes). Every rig gets ten 50' cables, ten 5' cables, and one hundred 50' cables. I have done hundreds of gigs with them. We have never run out of cable, and have often times even had to supply lighting companies with com cable at the last minuet to bail them out. They order their Whirlwind cables with yellow bands on the connectors for the 5' cables, and red for the 50' cables. I have always appreciated this, as it makes it easier to direct crew as to what I need from the cable trunk.

~Dave

 

[bishopthomas]

The loading dock is "inside" the building, in kind of a large garage kind of thing. Totally enclosed from the elements makes a nice cozy loading situation. When I was there a few years ago we set up the entire remote recording rig INSIDE the freight elevator with plenty of room to comfortably work. It's a strange looking building but Sayer theatre is a nice room (didn't go in the other one).

Anyway, back on topic... I don't have a count of cables, per se, but I make sure I have enough to correspond with my consoles/snakes. Lengths and color codes are 6' (yellow), 10' (white), 20' (green), 30' (blue), 50' (red). Same system for XLR and DMX so sorting back at the shop is sometimes necessary after a hasty load out with new guys on the full production jobs. I have a plastic bin full of XLR (the kind with the lids that fold into the middle and kind of "tooth" together) that goes with the smaller rigs. We have a 22x30 case full of XLR for the line array rig.

So, short answer is have enough "normal" lengths to correspond with your snake/console, then add to it with some shorties and a few long runs. Personally, I'd rather link two 50's together and tape the connectors than deal with 100's.

 

[djyojoe]

Going back to the OP. This is a list of what I load for most shows. I also do allot of outdoor events and utilize self powered speakers. I've been doing this for a long time and so I know this works for me. I don't need someones comment telling me how I'm wasting my time with 100' cords or 5' cords. I'm also an electrician. So when I'm sitting at home watching the game, I make all my own cords and do maintenance on my cords. That cuts the cost down by more than half the cost to buy a cord new for. It can get boring making the XLR cords. I mostly use Canare L-4E6S for my XLR cords. That's why I usually make one cord a day on average. I also only use Neutrik NC3MXX-B & NC3FXX-B. I pretty much make all my cords. Well I should say I use to. Now that I have a good sized inventory of cords. They just get a little maintenance here and there. I also take good care of my cords. All my cords get coiled using the over - under method. If you ever need any type of custom audio, lighting, pyrotechnic, or power cord. Send me a PM.

So here it is.
8 - 5'
10 - 10'
12 - 15'
24 - 25'
10 - 35'
8 - 50'
6 - 75'
6 - 100'

When I'm working an outdoor show, I'll usually bump up the 50', 75' & 100' cords by double those numbers. Some of my outdoor shows consist of Firework shows, Parades, Airshows, Street Events, Ski Area Events.
I do use wireless equipment, but I rather run a wire first. That's just my opinion. I also like to have options and backup plans. When your 600 plus miles from your home base, it gets more difficult to adjust to needs.

 

[jstroming]

All of mine is in lengths of 5,10,25,50,100. We put e-tape about 1" below the connector on each end. We also have orange (company color) e-tape right below the "length" e-tape, which is great to easily identify which cables you own when doing shows with multiple rental houses.

We use 100ft lengths RELIGIOUSLY on my events. If you're in a theater (which we rarely are) with pre-existing FOH runs, com positions, and the like then I could see it not being as important, but I would still have 4 of them just in case. The extra cost isn't worth the hassle of stringing together 25's or 50's IMO, but then again I have a pretty large production budget and can have tons of extra cable lying around. We own in the neighborhood of 8-10,000ft of XLR.

On a similar topic, I LOVE Gepco M1042 analog audio cable. I have gone with Mogami, Canare, Belden, etc but nothing else I've tried stands up to the 1042 in terms of abuse. It has a thick, rough outer jacket which IMO coils better and is more industrial. I use these with the standard Neutrik NC3MXX and NC3FXX.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

You certainly need at least a half dozen 100 footers, they come in handy (No, not 100 Footers, that's just outrageous). About a dozen 50's would be good as well. On the other hand, some more shorty 5 and 10 footers would be good as well. It's really a shame you don't know what the other guy brought in.

This is coming from my experiences in both theatre and corporate. It seems its always either the longest cables or the shortest cables that run out first.

 

[derekleffew]

The legend that floats around is that the little Japanese man who designed the place was sitting at his breakfast table and looked at his egg sitting in its little cup and said, "That's what it will look like." ...

From the page previously cited:

It was also Rocky, if local legend can be believed, who single-handedly designed the curvilinear Meeting Center--later to be universally known as "The Egg"--when at a breakfast meeting with the architects he put a half-grapefruit atop a small pitcher of cream.[62] One can imagine the sycophantic scribbling that followed his offhand comment, "we need something like this!" --and the formidable engineering talent that, in the wake of one billionaire's offhand whim, went into fashioning the ovoid structure that one critic would liken to a "futuristic Italian bidet."[63]

-----

...We have plenty of sub snakes and all that fun stuff. We have a good deal of 20's, 15's, 10's, and 5's. ...

Please quantify "plenty" and "a good deal of". Is the inventory to account for intercom, line level, and remote recording uses as well as microphone?

 

[Footer]

From the page previously cited:

-----
Please quantify "plenty" and "a good deal of". Is the inventory to account for intercom, line level, and remote recording uses as well as microphone?

Next week is when I will be inventorying that gear. We don't have any recording gear in house, anytime that is done gear is provided by an outside vendor. All com stays where it is and never moves so that cable is not in inventory. We do have at least 20ish guitar cables so we are covered there.

 

[TJCornish]

I think this all depends on what you're doing. I own ZERO 100' cables, and I don't miss them, but I do bands and use sub snakes to get the drops closer to the final destination. The lion's share of my cables are 20' - 25'. I have a dozen or so 50', and a dozen or so 10' - good for the drum kit to the sub snake. If you're doing theater where the jack is on the wall across the stage from where your source is, I can see the need for 100'.

I like having twice as many cables as inputs on my system - that allows for infrequently chaining a couple cables together, powered monitor connections, and some extras, allowing me to use the right length cord more often.

 

[djyojoe]

I forgot to mention. I know rolling up a 100' cord can be a hassle to deal with. That's why some of our 100' cords get spooled and some of them coiled with over under.

All of mine is in lengths of 5,10,25,50,100. We put e-tape about 1" below the connector on each end. We also have orange (company color) e-tape right below the "length" e-tape, which is great to easily identify which cables you own when doing shows with multiple rental houses.

We use 100ft lengths RELIGIOUSLY on my events. If you're in a theater (which we rarely are) with pre-existing FOH runs, com positions, and the like then I could see it not being as important, but I would still have 4 of them just in case. The extra cost isn't worth the hassle of stringing together 25's or 50's IMO, but then again I have a pretty large production budget and can have tons of extra cable lying around. We own in the neighborhood of 8-10,000ft of XLR.

On a similar topic, I LOVE Gepco M1042 analog audio cable. I have gone with Mogami, Canare, Belden, etc but nothing else I've tried stands up to the 1042 in terms of abuse. It has a thick, rough outer jacket which IMO coils better and is more industrial. I use these with the standard Neutrik NC3MXX and NC3FXX.

Yes, Gepco M1042 is a nice cable as well. I like that jacket. As far as marking cords. I use a Brady label maker. Heat shrink it on with whatever information you want on the cord. and I use the Neutrik XXR color rings to quickly identify.

If you ever need a robust extremely tough jacketed cord. Look up the Belden 8402. We typically use this for firework shows on the PyroDigital system. But also works great as a Mic/Line cord. The cord is a shielded 2cond 20awg. The Brown jacket is made with Hypalon. But it's also not cheap. A 500' spool go's for $1700.