How to fly a backdrop in a 1/4 height fly-loft

[hamlett22]

Hey all

We have a nice theatre facility with great automatic vortek rigging hoists on 12 battens. Hit a button and they run in and out. Problem is we only have a 1/4 height fly loft, so flying large items like a floor to trimmed grid backdrop is impossible.. the bottom of a 22' backdrop would only trim at 8' off the deck.

I am tired of this issue and am brainstorming a solution to make putting up musicals more stream lined.

My idea is to use a full 22' high backdrop but put the batten at the bottom of the drop and run the 5 air craft cable lines on the vortek hoist down the back of the drop. I was thinking maybe I could sew jute webbing in 5 vertical lines down the back of the drop (5 aircraft cables on the hoist, 5 vertical lines of jute webbing sewn at vertical intervals from top to bottom), punch in grommets and run each aircraft cable from the hoist through each grommet down to the bottom of the drop and then re-attach the cables to the batten seated in the bottom pocket of the drop. Then when flown out, the backdrop would gather as the cables pull the batten upwards.

What do you think? Are there some issues I need to consider?

In essence my idea is to create a large shade on stage that gathers when flown out.

Your thoughts (not advice heaven forbid) are appreciated.

hamlett22

 

[mrtrudeau23]

I personally have never had to do this, but what you are describing is essentially how one would go about taking a fly out in a short fly tower. I've never dealt with a 1/4 height tower, so I don't know how well your idea will work (I'd run a test with some muslin or something so you don't ruin your drop), but in a 3/4 tower I've worked in, we just picked the bottom of the drop and essentially raise it the rest of the way just "folding back on itself".

 

[hamlett22]

thanks.

I thought about this but I would need to raise it in three places to get it out of the way which would mean using three battens. I don't have enough free battens to do that which is why I was thinkign the "shade" gathering route.

hamlett22

 

[Les]

What type of pipe are you planning on using? I ask because due to the weight, you might want to consult a rigger for safety purposes. Another positive byproduct of this however, is that they may have some tricks up their sleeve that you may not have thought about.
We had a 1/4 fly tower in high school because the original building was built in 1949 (multi-million dollar renovation in 2002) and I guess in 1949 a full fly tower was deemed unnecessary. At the time of the renovation, it was cost prohibitive since the stage was surrounded by the band hall, choir room, scene shop and studio theatre. "Land Locked", you might say, and they didn't want to bull doze part of the building so as to get a crane in there. It was less than ideal, but we always just had our cyc flown from the furthest US batten. Though, I do wish we had a bit more flexibility. We eventually added a scrim as well, which was flown from a traverse (again, less than ideal).

Situations like these are when I wish there were more Olio (roll drops) in use. "Just roll it up like a giant projector screen!"

 

[Footer]

Depending on the drop, you can easily wreck the drop by folding it over and over again in that method. If you are building the drop in house, it might be worth a try. Just be aware of the folding when you are painting the drop.

You also might want to research "tripping". It will allow you to fly a 20' drop in a 7' fly space. It only takes 2 lift lines as well. It does take a specially built drop, but it does work. Because you are in a winched house, tripping is much safer then it is on a counterweight system.

 

[len]

If it's something that is revealed and left there (as opposed to removed during the show) a kabuki drop might be less expensive.

 

[JChenault]

It was not clear to me from your description what you were planning to use to hold up the top of the drop. If the plan is to use one of your winch lines, I would suggest researching tripping the drop in thirds ( as footer suggests). Basically you build a horizontal seam 1/3 of the way up and attach one pipe there. The second pipe hold up the top. When you take it out, it folds in thirds.

I have some concerns about the approach you laid out.

• The fabric probably does not want to be painted as the paint would likely crack and wear badly. This moves you towards some kind of dye ( or extremely thin paint).
• You want a fabric which is not too stiff as you are trying to get it to drape nicely.
• If your fabric is reasonably light weight, you will likely find that jute webbing may be overkill as it may not drape as softly as the fabric. If it is heavier weight, then jute is more likely appropriate.
• If you are going to dead hang a pipe for the top of the drop, you will have to put that quite a bit higher than the normal height as you need room for the gathered drop to fly out.
• You may have issues with the vertical seams showing in your drop.
• You probably do not want to thread the cable through the grommet holes. You will have to remove the cable from the pipe and properly reattach it. You would have to remove any hardware, swages, etc from the cable to get in through the tiny grommet holes, etc. You should probably look for some kind of split ring you could put on the cable without removing it from the batten, and then tie that to the grommet.

Another option you might want to consider would be a drop on a full width traveler. IE just bring it on from the side.

 

[MPowers]

Hamlett,

The folding process you described is what is called a Austrian or Brail curtain. The method works well for light weight fabrics, not so much for heavier goods. Generally the fabric is dyed or "painted" with dye rather with scene paint. There has been some sucess in recent years with drops that are digitaly printed as the inks are more like a dye thatn a heavy coat of paint. The construction of such a drop requires a skilled sewing room to avoid puckers and gathers in the fabric. The usual method of running the "lift lines" s to attach "D" rings to a twill tape or the lightest weight tape possible for the speciffic curtain fabric. The fabric should be one with a soft "Hand" so that it hangs out with a few wrinkles showing as possible. When used as an Austrian curtain it is usually for a decorative curtain that hangs in a series of smoth bunched arcs when down and is often in full view when the drape is at high trim. The "brail" method is when the curtain is sewn to hang flat in the "down" position and can be used for very heavy curtains such as fire curtains which are not meant to be seen during a show and where the wrinkles or bunching do not matter.

Now, that said, the people suggesting triping the drop have given you the best advice. The drop needs to have a pipe web sewn across 1/3 of the way up from the bottom. A pipe web is basicly just like the top of the drop, webbing with grommets and ties sewn to the back. Then when the two battens go up the drop will be out of sight. You can also dead hang the top of the drop so you only use one lineset to fly it out. Hope this helps.

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger-Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment, Des Moines, Iowa, Central Lighting & Equipment

 

[kicknargel]

If you have the space, I agree that tripping is the best solution.

Also, depending on your width, a roll drop might be good (I'm sure there is lots of info in CB about those).

However:

A theatre I do lighting in has zero fly space and they do their drops thusly: They paint them on scrim because it stays soft, can gather tightly and open wrinkle-free. I'd imagine you could do it on lino-filled scrim if you needed it to be opaque. Then the rig is similar to what you described: The top is dead-hung, and the lift lines connect to a bottom pipe. They use some sort of split ring and just poke it through the scrim at 1' or so intervals with the lift lines running through it, so it gathers as it goes out.

The upsides are that it will hide in about 1-2' of masked area, and look nice when it comes in. The down sides are the cost of the material and the modified paint techniques needed. The scrim tends to rip a little at the rings and probably only lives for one 10-week show.

I've done something very similar with a curtain that was dye-sublimated (dye printing) on synthetic silk. In this case I bought D-rings, looped a bit of twill through each one and stitched it on the back for the lift lines to run through. This was supposed to look more like a curtain, with some flow/softness. I think to make it look flat like a drop you'd need a slightly elastic material (hence the scrim). Maybe synthetic muslin if you painted/stitched it just right. There again if you put the rings on the back before painting, they're going to show up in the paint job.

 

[Sony]

I would suggest using a roll drop, as that is what I am most familiar with, but if you feel comfortable with rigging, then tripping is also an option.