Control/Dimming Hypothetical Question

[Crisp image]

Ok so the boss comes to you at your theatre (that does mainly Musicals and plays) and says "Time for a now lighting console"
You ask the obvious question about the budget and get the following response "No budget constraints just find the best for the space (say 500-600 seats)"
So being blown away by the response you start thinking and come up with a list for the boss.

What would be on your list and why?

Looking forward to your answers. There is no incorrect answers and there will be difference of opinions so lets respect those opinions.

Regards
Crispy

 

[soundofsparks]

What is in the current fixture inventory?

Are there often rental fixtures, what kinds of things get rented?

What is the current back-end? What kind of dimmers? How many? Other power control? How does the console talk to the back-end? Is there a architectual system to play nice with?

Choosing they right console is about fitting it into the existing system.

Unless the hypothetical is to spec a full system...

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Popular music busking or equity company theatre, of many events? Too many variables as soundofsparks points out. And board ops - what can they run? Unlimited desk/counter space? The list goes on.

 

[Crisp image]

And here I was thinking this should be an easy question.
Specs. Let me add some. Please understand I am a total beginner in this world so take out easy on me.
48 dimmers generic type 4 sets of 12.
Dmx over ethernet from console location to stage
A range of incandescent lights as well as LED fixtures. There are 12 moving head lights on the standard rig. Smoke and hazers and some extra moving heads hired as required.
That must make it a little easier.
Remember most of the shows in thos space are plays and musicals not very often would a band with busking would use this venue.

 

[soundofsparks]

And here I was thinking this should be an easy question.
Specs. Let me add some. Please understand I am a total beginner in this world so take out easy on me.
48 dimmers generic type 4 sets of 12.
Dmx over ethernet from console location to stage
A range of incandescent lights as well as LED fixtures. There are 12 moving head lights on the standard rig. Smoke and hazers and some extra moving heads hired as required.
That must make it a little easier.
Remember most of the shows in thos space are plays and musicals not very often would a band with busking would use this venue.

The size of the system is pretty small, so you probably don't need something super big.

If your "DMX over ethernet" is ETC Net2 or Net3, I'd say you should get an ETC Ion or a Gio @5... I'd say shoot for 4k outputs.

If the network is a generic sACN, perhaps a non-ETC product... but I imagine you have a Net2 or 3...

Also, if you had Net2 gear, it would be wise to use some of the unlimited console money to upgrade to Net3...

 

[EdSavoie]

Be careful with the difference between DMX over Ethernet versus DMX over Cat5.

Ethernet implies it's over the data layer, as in it's actually a local area network. The most notable examples of this are Artnet, and e1.31 / sACN.

DMX over Cat5 however, implies a normal DMX signal being sent over the physical cable. (Not a computer network)

 

[DavidJones]

Well If someone tells me "no budget constraints," I'm going to say MA2 FullSize.
In reality, Who is running this desk? One staff person? a group of volunteers? the sound guy for one-off speaking events?

For theater, and given your inventory, I would say at least and ION or bigger ETC desk. But give hard look at the MA dot2 also. It is designed squarely for your market and is very easy to use.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Ion unless you really have a group of better than average operators. IMHO Too much out there in the way of experience, help, videos, training available, etc., to overlook. Gio or EOS also fine but seem a little over what you need. Get a Nomad and puck for back-up; use it as a designers remote or for training.

 

[SteveB]

Note that ETC is releasing an updated Ion series, or at least a new version, in a few months.

 

[BobHealey]

What console do you have now? What do you like about it? What do you hate about it?

 

[icewolf08]

Even more important a questions than what you have now: Where do you see the theatre going in 5-10 years? Most companies expect a lighting desk to be a 7-10 year investment. Almost any desk on the market will cover the needs you listed today, but what will your needs be in a couple years?

Also, consider in this day and age of networked systems, you probably want more than just a console. Sure, you can plop an Ion on your tech table and just go, but if you really have an open budget, it is probably time to think about the rest of your infrastructure. You probably should consider installing a dedicated lighting network, including, switches, POE, wall jacks throughout the venue. You should probably consider either installing gateways or getting portable gateways so that you can distribute data wherever you might need it on demand. You also probably should consider investing in a backup console or (in ETC speak) an RPU. Maybe you also want some remote interfaces so you don't have to drag your console from the booth to a tech table all the time.

Given the specs you listed and the fact that you are a theatrical venue primarily, I would do something like this:

• Main Desk - Gio @5 or full size Gio
• RPU (Rackmount Processing Unit) - for backup
• 24-port POE switch
• Portable 2-port gateways (one for each on-stage electric, plus some for FOH positions)
• Network drops throughout theatre - each side of stage, in the grid, near tech table positions, at FOH positions, etc.
• RVI or Nomad dongle - for tech table/designer

A system like this gives you live backup plus remote interface and updates your network infrastructure. It will likely be a system that will take you into the future and hopefully not feel inadequate as you update the rest of your gear over time.

 

[Rob]

Also, if you had Net2 gear, it would be wise to use some of the unlimited console money to upgrade to Net3...

If your current gateways are Net2, you can swap out one circuit board with this referb kit to greatly extend the life of an existing installation while ensuring access to the latest industry standards and protocols, without major retrofit expense.

 

[MRW Lights]

There is no such thing as no budget constraint... someone has a number. When given hypothetical projects I try to put a proposal together with good, better, best.

Good being an item you can work with that will get the job done at a reasonable price point, but may not grow with your venue and is at proven if not back end point of the market.

Better being the package you actually want, make this one shiny and attractive. Set it up to grow and expand with your needs, but reasonably priced and write it up to make sense within the scope of the project.

Best, if there really is no budget constraint then go crazy. Get the dream system and make it impenetrable. Honestly the space I'm in now sort of got this... A board member was overseeing the project and they didn't hire any "Arts" staff until the end of the project. At the time they were convinced to put all of the money into the infrastructure and hard systems and then rent the rest of the equipment. Because of that I can almost endlessly expand my system with only updating gear and not needing to spend money upgrading the space to grow with the needs of the venue.

 

[SteveB]

If your current gateways are Net2, you can swap out one circuit board with this referb kit to greatly extend the life of an existing installation while ensuring access to the latest industry standards and protocols, without major retrofit expense.

Presumably these kits can be installed into the ETC legacy 2 port nodes that were built by Pathway for ETC ?, but not any of the portable, stand-alone or rack mount 4 port nodes ETC sold ?.

Just clarifying

 

[Rob]

Presumably these kits can be installed into the ETC legacy 2 port nodes that were built by Pathway for ETC ?

Correct. If it looks like our C-Series, this kit will work.

 

[robmerow]

Ion seems to fit the bill. If budget was truly no option I'd go with Gio full size for a more comfortable programming experience with the intels.

Personally I would rather have an Ion w/ 2 external touchscreens than a Gio @5 with one larger one.

 

[SteveB]

Ion seems to fit the bill. If budget was truly no option I'd go with Gio full size for a more comfortable programming experience with the intels.

Personally I would rather have an Ion w/ 2 external touchscreens than a Gio @5 with one larger one.

The @5 can add 2 add'l screens, so about $700 - $800 and you get 3 touch screens.

Big question is will the *new* Ion allow 3 screens. Currently and they are talking about "Ions", plural, there's no screen but does seem to use the Gio/Programming sing facepanel, no motorized faders.

 

[sk8rsdad]

The new Ion will be limited to 2 screens. The rumours from CUE suggest it's equivalent to a programming wing + puck + 20 fader (manual?) wing.

 

[SteveB]

The new Ion will be limited to 2 screens. The rumours from CUE suggest it's equivalent to a programming wing + puck + 20 fader (manual?) wing.

Note that in the Cue opening speech, David Lincecum mentioned "Ion consoles", plural.

We will find out if he misspoke.

Maybe, just maybe there will be some options and a 3rd screen will be one of them.

 

[robmerow]

Or maybe he just meant that the production run for the new model is at least two