Joining the Union, IATSE

rochem

Well-Known Member
Well, after about a year and a half of working as an overhire with the local, I have been invited to join IATSE. I'm pretty excited about this, but before I jump in headfirst, I wanted to get some outside opinions of the union. I know all locals are different and many people have varying opinions on IATSE, but that's why I wanted to post my questions here.

I'm currently a high school senior, and I will be going off to college next year for Theatre Design/Technology, with a concentration in Lighting Design. From the looks of it, my college for next year will be under a different local's jurisdiction, so I wouldn't be able to commute regularly back and forth for calls. However, I'm hoping that having a card might help to get on some overhire lists in wherever city I end up next year. Also, I'm hoping that when I apply for summer stock and internships and such, having the union card would at least imply a base set of skills which could help me to get the position. My concerns are, however, that having a union card would actually hurt my chances at getting jobs and positions wherever I end up next year. For the record, I've already addressed these and other questions to the BA at my local, I just wanted to get another set of opinions.

So what would you recommend? Would joining the union help me out at this stage, or would it have the potential to hurt me as I go into college? Or would it really not affect me at all? I'm proud of the work I've put in and the experience I've gained through working long hours with the union, and I feel like having a card would help me out in the long term, however others may have different opinions about the IA. Your thoughts?
 
Well, after about a year and a half of working as an overhire with the local, I have been invited to join IATSE. I'm pretty excited about this, but before I jump in headfirst, I wanted to get some outside opinions of the union. I know all locals are different and many people have varying opinions on IATSE, but that's why I wanted to post my questions here.

I'm currently a high school senior, and I will be going off to college next year for Theatre Design/Technology, with a concentration in Lighting Design. From the looks of it, my college for next year will be under a different local's jurisdiction, so I wouldn't be able to commute regularly back and forth for calls. However, I'm hoping that having a card might help to get on some overhire lists in wherever city I end up next year. Also, I'm hoping that when I apply for summer stock and internships and such, having the union card would at least imply a base set of skills which could help me to get the position. My concerns are, however, that having a union card would actually hurt my chances at getting jobs and positions wherever I end up next year. For the record, I've already addressed these and other questions to the BA at my local, I just wanted to get another set of opinions.

So what would you recommend? Would joining the union help me out at this stage, or would it have the potential to hurt me as I go into college? Or would it really not affect me at all? I'm proud of the work I've put in and the experience I've gained through working long hours with the union, and I feel like having a card would help me out in the long term, however others may have different opinions about the IA. Your thoughts?

This is a key to a door---walk through it. Having a card is a huge advantage. You will never regret it.

ST
 
I was in a similar situation. I was asked to apprentice in my local, but I was in a very transitional period of my life. I didn't know if I was going to be around for any significant period of time. I was traveling all over the country, job to job, and I knew that I wanted to move to NY in the long run and therefore couldn't commit to my local. So, out of respect for the local, I didn't join just to get my card, and then run off to another local. It depends on how loyal your local is expecting you to be. Some locals can get offended because they put in time and effort to train new people.

I hugely regret not sticking around to get my card. I have successfully moved to NYC and make a living working Off-Broadway mostly, but man do I wish I had my card. It would make it infinitely easier to get work in Broadway houses and IA tours. Now I have to start my decade or so long trek to join Local 1.

:)
-Tim
 
Depends on the cities involved. I love IATSE and was going to get my card to get into a riggers apprentice program, BUT.... The city where I went to college had only 2 IA houses (one theater and one convention center). With all the people on the rolls there was very little work to go around. We were free however to work in non-union houses. I also looked at transferring my card (once I got it) and the chances of transferring a card from that local to any other local were next to nothing. In addition it was not a very well run local at the time and there were many problems.

Again, I love the IA and it may be different in your town, but go into the whole thing with your eyes open. Sometimes it is worth it and sometimes it is not.

Mike
 
Have you been offered your card or been offered to take their test?

I would advise against doing it now. You can run into some issues with many summer stock theatres with the IA membership. You can also run into issues doing community theatre locally. It all depends on how your local would deal with that. What kind of local is your IA? Are there many members who only support themselves with work in the union or does the local work 10 or so shows a month at the local arena/civic theatre?
If its the former, I would probably reconsider, if its the latter, you might want to go for it. However, some doors could be closed for you later on.

There is a stigma that goes along with IA, both good and bad. It all depends on your local and how you market yourself. I have seen resume's trashed at a summer stock theatre and at a university because of an IA connection. I have also seen people hired because of IA connections. Starting in a smaller hall has its benefits, but you are going to have to leapfrog your way up to larger halls to get anywhere.

One quick question, what benefits are you going to get out of joining?
 
Well, after about a year and a half of working as an overhire with the local, I have been invited to join IATSE. I'm pretty excited about this, but before I jump in headfirst, ?

STOP RIGHT THERE !.

No further reading or discussion required.

People KILL to become IATSE members. If it's offered, take it. No questions asked. Pay the initiation fee, pay the dues. Keep paying the dues even if you become a Peace Corp worker in Somalia and never return.

You WILL some day be eternally grateful you had this opportunity.
 
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Thanks for the responses, both positive and negative.

Footer - definitely the latter. There's some months we don't even come close to 10 shows. We have two contract venues, a theatre and a small arena. The theatre gets one or two shows every month, while most of the arena work is doing changeovers to and from hockey to basketball to concert venue. There's no one in the local who makes their entire living from union calls - it's a second job for pretty much everyone.

Xander/Esoteric - Like I said, this is a very small local, and they don't have a lot of work to spread around. So to compensate, they have very few restrictions on where you can work as a union member. They're fully aware that I will be leaving for college in 6 months and will only be able to work while home on break or something. They actually have a specific clause which applies to college students which says that I can work any show affiliated with the college without having to jump through any union hoops. This includes shows that just happen to hire student technicians wherever I end up going to college. They want to encourage younger technicians to learn about the industry and use that knowledge to help the local, so they're very supportive of the college environment in particular.

STEVETERRY/SteveB - These were my thoughts exactly. I won't be around long enough to take full advantage of the increase in pay, and I'm not expecting my card from a tiny local out in nowheresville to automatically get me gigs in Boston or New York. But if having a card can get me even one interview/meeting/case-pushing job in a larger theatre market such as New York or Boston, then I'd say it's worth it.

Thanks for all the responses guys! My thoughts right now are to go for it, but I want to be completely sure that I'm not screwing myself over for college and beyond. Footer, would you mind elaborating on the potential negatives? Are these legal issues, like that I would legally not be allowed to work at a specific venue/theatre/company because of having a card? Or are they more personality issues, like a manager somewhere having a personal vendetta against the IA?
 
Michael,

I see that you are from Corning and I am a current member of that local. I was the locals head carpenter for Wizard of Oz and I believe you were on my crew. As you know much of our local is getting old and it is always good to see younger people interested in joining.
We have had some people join and go away to college, i know one of them is currently in Vegas working and another is now a member of local one. We also have several others out on the road right now. Having a card from our local was a huge foot in the door for both of them. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and a passion for the business; I feel that joining could do the same for you.
Just remember that even if you are not around and working you still have to pay your dues, which are rather low compared to other locals. Where are you planning to go to school? Have you found out if they have a Union there? and if so have you contacted them to see if you would be able to work for them while you are away?
Weather you decide to join or not i look forward to working with you again in the future.

Scott
 
I am not an IA member. I have considered it many times but my current career path does not involve IA. I have worked overhire for a few different IA halls accross the country and have enjoyed my time there.

As far as the throwing out of resume's....

Its not really a vendetta, its more of a stigma. There are many people in the world of education who have spent 6-8 years in college to get where they are. Same thing goes for many people in the management of many theatres. Many education (MFA) types see IA as box pushing neck downs. By putting that on your resume' you run the risk of getting lumped in with that crowd if the reader is one of those that believes that statement. Yes, many IA halls are filled with box pushers who will say that proud. There are others out there that are filled with great technicians who know the art of stagecraft inside and out.

I do suggest you join your hall. It sounds like a good hall and could do you well in the future. However, be aware when you put that on your resume, especially if your local number is in the 100's, you could bring that stigma along with it. You also run into many theatres that don't know if they can hire an IA person or not. Most people in summerstock theatres are used to dealing with AEA and think the same rules apply, IE you can't work here if you are a member of the union without a union contract and union rules.

I will relate this to a friend of mine in college. He was an Eagle Scout but refused to put it on his resume'. The reason he gave was that there are many people in the theatre community who are gay and the boy scouts have the stigma they are anti-gay. He was proud that he had achieved eagle scout but would not put it on his resume' because he was concerned of the chance of being thrown out because of that association.

The nice thing about IA unlike equity is it is something you could leave on the side later on. If you need it, it can be there, if you don't, you are not forced to bring it up. That all depends on your hall however.
 
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I'm a bit unclear about this - is the only way to join IATSE by being invited?
I have looked around before, and couldn't find anything about it.
The theatre I worked at over the summer was unionized, and I talked to the house crew about working and things, but they didn't mention how they got started. I should have asked :doh:
 
I'm a bit unclear about this - is the only way to join IATSE by being invited?
I have looked around before, and couldn't find anything about it.
The theatre I worked at over the summer was unionized, and I talked to the house crew about working and things, but they didn't mention how they got started. I should have asked :doh:
There are two ways in, though it depends on the union. The regular way is to start working overhire with the union. After so many calls or a set number of hours you can say that you are interested in joining. Depending on the union, they can take you in as an apprentice, give you a test to get your card, or just give you your card. Most unions require a vote of the membership on each new member and require a given number of votes to get a person in. This is where it gets hard to get into a union. If they don't like you or your not connected properly, your not getting in.

Many unions require you to take a test to get your full card. In the case of local one just getting to the point where you can take your test takes 5-10 years and even then you have to know the right people.

There is one other way in. You can get a job as the head of a dept. of a union house or get a job on a union tour and the company that is hiring you will basically force you into the union. This is the way general industry works.
 
I've been a member of the IA for some fifteen years now, and have served as both Local Secretary and as Delegate to Convention, so I have a bit of perspective on the question.

Most of the con to joining a union is the stereotype of union members (in any industry) being overpaid and lazy people who stand around arguing who's work a particular job is, and confusion over what sort of contract (or lack thereof) is needed to employ a union member. The stereotype, like all stereotypes, may have some roots in reality, but it is not an accurate depiction of the majority of IA members - most members are focused on doing the best job possible for the client, and few would consider themselves overpaid, especially given the feast-or-famine nature of the business and the variable times and conditions they're asked to work in. The contract confusion is a matter for education, and may require referring to the law in your state, since there are differences across the country.

The pros include having greater access to work within your local's jurisdiction, training and education, and the possession of a card in your pocket that proves you take your profession seriously enough to join and maintain membership in the largest association of entertainment technicians in the country. It may or may not increase your pay for present employment (it depends on the current contract), but over time and overall the union jobs will pay more than the non-union work.

Joining the IA, from the perspective of the International, is fairly straight-forward. The International is focused on the fact that the more workers have cards, the more likely the union is to succeed in negotiating a contract, thus they generally assume that anyone who is doing the work should have a card. If you had a history of crossing picket lines as a scab worker, they might deny the application, but usually the big thing they worry about is if you still owe money from a previous period of membership or an incomplete attempt to join.

The Local Union is usually more of a hurdle for gaining membership. It is to the Local that you need to apply to for membership, and follow whatever their local procedure is. Some Locals see themselves as a 'labor union' and will welcome anyone working in the business with open arms, some see themselves as a 'craftsmen guild' and will want you to prove yourself via an apprenticeship and skills tests, and, unfortunately, a few see themselves as a closed club, and will resist attempts of outsiders to dilute the amount of union work that is available. In all three cases, the starting point is the same - asking the Local Secretary for an application form (you can find contact information here). There is a $100 filing fee that the International requires with all applications, plus whatever the Local requires as an initiation fee (these can be waived under certain circumstances), so make sure you ask what your particular Local will ask of you for fees, as well as the procedure.

Being asked to join a Local does not mean that membership is by invitation only - the IA is there to represent all workers in the trade. It does mean that the current members have noticed your work and dedication, and would like you to consider joining them. It is a good sign that your application will be accepted and approved by the membership. If you're interested in joining, but haven't been directly asked, ask a member who the Secretary is, or follow the link above to find them. Once the application is approved by the International, you then need to do whatever the Local requires for testing and training, and eventually you will be voted on by the membership. Assuming the vote is positive, you are then a member for as long as you pay your dues.

As for transferring from one Local to another, the process isn't a lot different than the process for joining as a new member - you still need to contact the Secretary, pass whatever test the Local gives you, and be voted on by the membership of the destination Local. You must maintain your good standing in your original Local until the transfer is complete, and how simple or complicated the process is depends on the Locals in question.

Being a union member does not automatically exclude you from doing non-union work. By joining, you voluntarily agree to obey the Union if they tell you to turn down a certain job, but usually the Local will only do that if the employer in question is one that the Local is trying to put pressure on by denying them skilled workers, or if the pay scale is so low that it's seen as undercutting existing contracts, or if the work environment is known to be unsafe. Otherwise, union members doing the work is usually seen as a better situation than non-members doing the work, although working under a contract is the preferred situation. The size of the Local has a lot to do with the degree of flexibility they allow, with the larger Locals being more particular about working under contract. Another thought is that the more union members there are working for an employer, the easier it will be to organize that employer in the future.

Educational and community theater are a special area for the application of union rules. Most Locals have clauses in the By-Laws stating that no member should teach the craft to a non-member or work for less than scale (ie: free), but this is usually overlooked for schools and volunteer groups. Technical theater students are the sort of people the IA would like to have join, and community theater volunteers generally don't compete for the paid work. As long as your work in school or for local groups doesn't displace paid workers, most Locals won't worry about it. I know several IA members who teach theater, and I was a community theater Asst. TD when I joined. It's not a problem.

I don't think there are any laws requiring you to declare yourself as a union member when applying for jobs (might vary from state to state, though), so you could leave that piece of information off your resume if you think that it would hurt your chances for a particular job. However, I wouldn't give a false answer to a direct question during an interview.

Having a card is always more of a foot in the door than not having a card. You will find more paths open to you with the card than without, even if it doesn't mean a slam-dunk entry into a big city job. The only caution I'd give the OP against taking the card now is his ability to keep current on dues while he's at school - if you get dropped from membership for not paying, you have to pay the missing sum plus back dues through to the present day as a lump sum to get back in, plus be voted on again (may be a two-year cap on the back dues required, they did some changing a few years ago). If you think you'll get enough work to at least cover the dues, it's definitely worth getting the card now.

There are a lot more ins and outs and what ifs, but this post is long enough now - feel free to ask me if you have questions or need further details.
 
A follow-up question was asked by PM, that perhaps bears reposting my answer here. The question was how one might honorably leave the IA for a period, and what might happen years later when they try to rejoin:

Any member who is up to date on dues and fees can request a Withdrawal Card, thus honorably ending their membership at close of the current quarter. The other route is to simply stop paying dues, and be expelled six months later, but you'd then have that debt sitting there waiting until you rejoined.

As for back dues for returning members, they've been tinkering with the language in recent years, and I'm not sure how things stand at the moment. It used to be that you could rejoin as a new member (losing your former seniority date), but too many people were joining and leaving too frequently, joining when business was good, and dropping out as soon as things got slow. So they stopped that practice, and made returning members liable for all back dues. This put female members who'd dropped out for a few years to raise kids at a disadvantage, so they put a two-year cap on the back dues, and at that point I lost track. Each step of the way was a different Convention, currently spaced four years apart. I haven't been a Secretary or a Delegate for the last couple conventions, so I don't have a current International Constitution and Bylaws, but your Local Secretary should have a copy, and can tell you what the current rules are - which isn't to say that they couldn't change again between now and your future return.

Loss of seniority date doesn't mean much, it's actually against federal law to fill calls based on union seniority. There aren't any black marks placed against your name if you are in for a while, leave for a while, and then come back, you'd hardly be the first to do so.
 
Loss of seniority date doesn't mean much, it's actually against federal law to fill calls based on union seniority.
....But that happens all the time....

Nearly every BA of any IA I have worked with is there because they have the most seniority. Seniority is how you get placed as an up-rigger in many halls (and draw the most pay). Its also how you get placed on actual show calls instead of just the in/out. It might be against the law, but it happens all the time and is impossible to prove in the courts if it does happen.
 
footer said:
It might be against the law, but it happens all the time and is impossible to prove in the courts if it does happen.

You're correct that it does happen, and that it is hard to prove, but it is still illegal. One of the reasons it is hard to prove is that union seniority rankings will usually closely match industry seniority and date-of-first-employment rankings, both of which are standards that are legal to use (If you really want to open up a can of worms, calling members before non-members (based solely on cardholding status) is illegal as well). Let's just say that the value of a particular union seniority date is yet another thing that varies from Local to Local, and leave it at that.

Nearly every BA of any IA I have worked with is there because they have the most seniority.

Business Agent should be an elected office in every Local, and the BA is the person who is point of contact for employers to place calls and negotiate contracts. Under the BA are Call Stewards, who fill the requested quantities of workers with the individual members, and on each job site there is a Job Steward, who is tasked with keeping track of hours and enforcing the contract's terms. In many smaller Locals, one person fills all three positions, or two people will hold some combination of posts. It would seem natural that the more experienced members would end up in these positions, but they aren't necessarily seniority-based. Under current law, Job Stewards are granted super-seniority for their job site, meaning that they are first-in, last-out each day, regardless of skill set, overall hours, etc., because to fulfill their duties and monitor the contract, they have to be present while any worker is working. Again, the more experienced members will be the most likely choices for this position.

I'll certainly never argue that rules and laws don't get ignored or abused, or suggest that it would be easy to get a large Local to change its ways. There's plenty of horror stories out there, but there's also a lot of good Locals, and a lot of Locals willing to get better given the right leadership. Where you are is going to determine what situation you find.
 
I am also on the fence about joining my local, but am in a right to work state so I'm not sure how strong the union is here and if it would actually help me or not. Anyone care to comment about the validity of IATSE in right to work states? Being from NJ I have always been under the impression that being in the union would likely be a good thing for my career, but now that I'm in TN I'm not so sure.
 
I am also on the fence about joining my local, but am in a right to work state so I'm not sure how strong the union is here and if it would actually help me or not. Anyone care to comment about the validity of IATSE in right to work states? Being from NJ I have always been under the impression that being in the union would likely be a good thing for my career, but now that I'm in TN I'm not so sure.

Nashville is one of the areas that there are many people who work for production houses that are not union. It is also a Crew1 market. I know in Atlanta the IA did have a contract with the big road house in town. The other large road house in town which was about a 1/4 mile from my apt. did not have a contract with anyone. Whatever the presenter wanted crew wise, they brought in. It could be crew1 one week, IA the next, Billy Bobs Lighting company the third. Very few places in the right to work states have contracts simply because they don't have to. The IA down there along with the rest of the unions have very little actual power in their venues. I would go IA way before going crew1, but the IA is losing work to crew1 left and right (at least they did in Atlanta). Tennessee and Nashville specifically has done very well for itself being right to work. With the amount of money Nissan has brought in people are not for hiring unions just because its the right thing to do.

I would put your name in with the local. There are plenty of people in Nashvegas who work overhire when they are in town and not on the road. It would be a good way to get to know some people and possibly get into one of the many shops. However, you don't have to get a card in order to get work. The IA down there is just one more labor company that is competing for work.
 
Thanks for the advice. I have my IATSE application filled out and ready to be turned in, just been on the fence about it. I will visit on Monday and at least see about getting on the overhire list. I'm not sure who I talked to when I was there before, but they didn't seem too anxious to even entertain the notion of adding someone else to the roster.

I had never heard of Crew 1 until now, so thanks for the tip. It may not be your first pick, but I'll take work wherever I can get it right now. Plus, the online application seems to be very convenient (although I haven't had much luck with applying for jobs online; maybe there's an office with a real hand to shake?).
 

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