Joining the Union, IATSE

[Footer]

Thanks for the advice. I have my IATSE application filled out and ready to be turned in, just been on the fence about it. I will visit on Monday and at least see about getting on the overhire list. I'm not sure who I talked to when I was there before, but they didn't seem too anxious to even entertain the notion of adding someone else to the roster.

I had never heard of Crew 1 until now, so thanks for the tip. It may not be your first pick, but I'll take work wherever I can get it right now. Plus, the online application seems to be very convenient (although I haven't had much luck with applying for jobs online; maybe there's an office with a real hand to shake?).

If you want to work for Crew 1, more power to ya. We all gotta eat and I know that more then any body. Take a gander at this thread... http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/general-advice/17819-iatse.html

At least know what you are walking into before you sign up.

 

[bishopthomas]

So, what I got out of that thread is that they hire people as independent contractors. I'm not a huge fan of that, but I've been doing that as a freelance engineer for the past 4 years now. I do have my own business, get 1099's from various people every year, pay self employment taxes, have no insurance, blah blah blah... I don't necessarily agree with companies hiring individuals as 1099 freelancers (and it's not exactly legal; a previous employer is going through an investigation with the labor department right now for doing this very thing), it's how many people decide to work. Ideally I'd get hired as a full time employee from one of the majors around here (or get on a tour) but that's not happening right now.

If you have any other issues with Crew 1 I'd love to hear it. If I need to stay away then I certainly will; but getting a 1099 at the end of the year isn't a reason for me to sit at home instead of getting paying gigs...

 

[cdub260]

In my part of Southern California, there's very little point in joining the local IATSI 504 as they have contracts with only a handful of venues in Orange County. That said, I have on occasion, worked with some of their crews when an organization they contracted with used my venue. For the most part, I found their crews to be highly professional, organized and motivated. The were a bit too rigid as to when break time was for my taste but I understand why they have to be that rigid. I've even been offered the opportunity to freelance with the union on a couple of occasions but for various reasons, was unable to take them up on the offers. For me personally, Joining IATSI would be of little or no benefit.

Now if you head north about 50 miles, up to Los Angeles, joining IATSI would be a much more viable and attractive career path as they have a much stronger presence there. Since I don't particularly like L.A., have no desire to live or work there, and have my dream job in a non-union house in Orange County, I will remain a non-union tech for the foreseeable future.

 

[Footer]

So, what I got out of that thread is that they hire people as independent contractors. I'm not a huge fan of that, but I've been doing that as a freelance engineer for the past 4 years now. I do have my own business, get 1099's from various people every year, pay self employment taxes, have no insurance, blah blah blah... I don't necessarily agree with companies hiring individuals as 1099 freelancers (and it's not exactly legal; a previous employer is going through an investigation with the labor department right now for doing this very thing), it's how many people decide to work. Ideally I'd get hired as a full time employee from one of the majors around here (or get on a tour) but that's not happening right now.

If you have any other issues with Crew 1 I'd love to hear it. If I need to stay away then I certainly will; but getting a 1099 at the end of the year isn't a reason for me to sit at home instead of getting paying gigs...

If your in need of work and they have work, go for it. If you have done the 1099 thing before and know how that works and what the means in terms of workmans comp, go for it.

 

[masterelectrician2112]

How old do you usually have to be to work overhire for IATSE?

 

[rochem]

How old do you usually have to be to work overhire for IATSE?

You have to be 18 to be paid as far as I know. However, I started volunteering for no pay at age 16, and I worked almost every call for about two years before turning 18 and officially getting on the overhire list. I think that's a big part of why I'm being invited to join at such a young age - because they know that I love working and that I'm in it for more than just the money. Even now, if there's a small call that I don't get paid for, I still always ask the steward if I can come in and work anyways for no pay.

 

[masterelectrician2112]

So how does one go about getting on the call list? I am turning 16 in May so I would like to start the long process of joining.

 

[Footer]

Give your local a call, -||- IATSE International -||

Call the BA of the local and tell them you would like to be on their overhire list. Its hard to get on a list that way, usually you have to know someone, but its worth a try.

 

[rochem]

Give your local a call, -||- IATSE International -||

Call the BA of the local and tell them you would like to be on their overhire list. Its hard to get on a list that way, usually you have to know someone, but its worth a try.

I actually did it a little differently than the norm. As I said, I worked for no pay or compensation for about two years before "officially" getting on the overhire list - if this isn't an option for you, then my approach won't work. When I first broke in, I set up a job shadowing experience through my school's Career Development Counselor at my local roadhouse during a load-in for a large touring broadway. I told them I was interested in lighting, so when I got there I met the BA and he just sent me to be another electrician, just like any other member of the crew. Throughout that whole day, everyone thought that I was a regular overhire stagehand except for a few people that the BA told. At the end of the load-in, I asked if I could come back for tech and for some of the shows to observe in the spot booth, and they said yes (this was the first outing of a major national tour, so they spent two weeks teching the show in our theatre). When they were getting ready to leave, I asked if I could return for the out, and they again said yes. Then as I was leaving from the out, I gave my contact info to the Steward and asked him to call me whenever I could come work - not taking the place of a paid stagehand, and not being paid, but just being able to come work and enjoy what I'm doing. I was invited to pretty much every Union call for the next two years and started to get a reputation of being reliable and on time and hard working, having never missed or been late to a call I had accepted. Then when I turned 18, I had already become a competent theatrical electrician, and had already attained a higher spot on the seniority list, so I started getting calls for many shows as a real, paid stagehand. I turned 18 last November, and they officially extended the invitation to me about two weeks ago.

The venue was about 30 minutes from my house, and for about two years I had to find a way to pay for my own gas and parking fees without getting anything back from the Union. The vast majority of calls took place during a weekday, so I would just tell my teachers well in advance that I would not be in classes that day. I know it's not an option that can work for everyone, but it worked out great for me, and I'd encourage you to try something like that too if you can pull it off. Feel free to PM me if you have any more specific questions.

 

[FatherMurphy]

I find it very strange that a Local would be using a volunteer to fill calls, underage to boot. If you were there on behalf of the house (a volunteer for the building's management), and working alongside the union workers, that would be one thing (my local routinely splits calls with students at state university performance centers), but if you were being called in by the Local to be a volunteer, that is the exact opposite of the main goals of unionism, 'equal pay for equal work', and 'appropriate wages for services rendered'. If you were working the call as one of the Union's head count, you were taking the place of a paid stagehand, even if that person would have been yourself, if you hadn't been a volunteer.

Most places, you have to be 18 before any kind of insurance coverage will begin, thus the 18 year age minimum for most jobs (not to mention child labor laws). When you were working while underage, if you had been hurt on the job, there would have been a big problem with medical insurance coverage. Working as a volunteer, the problems are even worse than those mentioned above in the 1099 worker discussion. Full-time workers receiving W-2 tax forms are automatically covered by Workman's Comp insurance in most states, Form 1099 self-employed contractors generally are not, and for a volunteer to be covered depends on the venue's insurance. Stop for a moment and think about taking a single wrong step, falling headfirst into the pit, and being confined to a wheelchair for the rest of your life with no insurance. Schools and community theaters carry insurance to cover volunteers for such things, professional houses frequently do not.

I'd like to know what possessed your BA to make use of you in this fashion - an underage person job shadowing a show or two is one thing, being called as a volunteer for every show for two years is another.

 

[photoatdv]

That does seem a bit strange... especially in our insurance and sue happy society.

 

[mstaylor]

Sounds like there may be a shortage of younger guys in the local and they may have been trying get some new blood.

 

[shiben]

Sounds like there may be a shortage of younger guys in the local and they may have been trying get some new blood.

Sounds like that to me too. Probably trying to get someone decently capable so that they would have guys who could do more than roll cases on the payroll.

 

[irish79]

As I have taken an oath not to speak of the buisness of the union to anyone who is not a member in good standing I will be breif here. He was not called for every show, there are alot more shows than the few musicals that i'm guessing he helped with . The house that he is speaking of was closed for almost a year for renovations and has only been open reopen for just over a year. This was during the 2 years he is speaking of. He did not replace any paid stages hands on any call, we would not let that happen. He showed an interest in working in theatre and we provided him an opurtunity to shadow several shows. He enjoys it and does a great job so we are now offering him that chance to join.

 

[rochem]

Sorry I couldn't reply to this thread sooner, I'm currently in the middle of a particularly grueling tech so I have very little free time. As Irish said, I did not ever replace any paid stagehands. The main point is that I was NOT in fact being "called" by the Union. If a show came through our theatre and requested 25 stagehands for the load-in, the BA would always fill those slots with elegible union members and overhires. I was NEVER called for a show until after I turned 18. However, after the personnel call was completely filled, the BA would generally give me a courtesy call, just to let me know that there would be a load-in going on at a certain time and place. I was never asked to come, only invited to come if I wanted. I was told dozens of times that I was welcome to come and go as I please, and I was free to decide 5 minutes before the call started that I didn't want to show up. My presence and labor was never expected or needed, but when I was there I simply served as one extra stagehand.

How I rationalized it is that the road crew is used to having, for example, 10 electricians at every load-in. They're obviously capable of doing the load-in with 10 guys, and they would not pay for an 11th electrician to make things work faster. However, I have never met a Head Electrician who was annoyed at having one extra guy on her crew. But the key point is that I was free to show up if and when I chose, and my presence was not in any way required or mandated. Outside the large touring broadway market, the lines become a little bit blurred, because I am currently taking part in an unpaid Internship at my local roadhouse where most of the calls I work take place. On the shows where I am not called due to my lower seniority status, I am often still asked to come in by the house through my internship, where I essentially end up doing much of the same work.

He was not called for every show, there are alot more shows than the few musicals that i'm guessing he helped with.

My apologies, my post from before should have read "almost every call at the theatre venue". I have done very little work outside of the roadhouse, but at least so far this season, I have worked almost every show at the theatre space in some way, whether through the Union or through my internship.

 

[Footer]

How I rationalized it is that the road crew is used to having, for example, 10 electricians at every load-in. They're obviously capable of doing the load-in with 10 guys, and they would not pay for an 11th electrician to make things work faster. However, I have never met a Head Electrician who was annoyed at having one extra guy on her crew. But the key point is that I was free to show up if and when I chose, and my presence was not in any way required or mandated. Outside the large touring broadway market, the lines become a little bit blurred, because I am currently taking part in an unpaid Internship at my local roadhouse where most of the calls I work take place. On the shows where I am not called due to my lower seniority status, I am often still asked to come in by the house through my internship, where I essentially end up doing much of the same work.

At the same time one could argue that you were taking away work from another person simply because the work was getting done faster. If you were not there it might have been possible that you would go past the minimum 4. Not saying that it happened, not saying it didn't, just play devils advocate. I could easily see people getting upset with this type of setup for this exact reason.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

At the same time one could argue that you were taking away work from another person simply because the work was getting done faster. If you were not there it might have been possible that you would go past the minimum 4. Not saying that it happened, not saying it didn't, just play devils advocate. I could easily see people getting upset with this type of setup for this exact reason.

I would argue against your point, its not like he was working on one offs, for touring shows they give specific numbers to get done what gets done, and that is all they need. Everybody makes the same amount of money if the 4 hour load out gets done in 2:15 as opposed to 2:30...

 

[rochem]

At the same time one could argue that you were taking away work from another person simply because the work was getting done faster. If you were not there it might have been possible that you would go past the minimum 4. Not saying that it happened, not saying it didn't, just play devils advocate. I could easily see people getting upset with this type of setup for this exact reason.

That's a fair point. But in my opinion, I really don't think my presense would have actually sped up a call by any significant amount, if at all. For one, this isn't a common thing - as far as I'm aware, there's no one else who worked for no pay like I did. So it's not like every department had 1-2 extra unpaid stagehands. And second, at least on most of the major tours I've worked, most tasks assigned to the local crew are fairly short and simple - "pull that meatrack downstage" or "make these connections" or similar. Obviously there are exceptions (hanging/focusing FOH, changing out gobos in a moving light, etc.), but for the most part this seems to be true. I have never worked a tour where every member of a department was assigned a specific task which took more than a minute or so to complete all at the same time. Usually, the Head Elec would say something like "run this cable to the end of the truss" and the three or four guys closest to the cable box would grab it and go, leaving the others standing around waiting for the next task. If my presense sped up a call at all, it was only because I happened to be standing a foot or two closer to where a task needed to be completed.

 

[Footer]

I would argue against your point, its not like he was working on one offs, for touring shows they give specific numbers to get done what gets done, and that is all they need. Everybody makes the same amount of money if the 4 hour load out gets done in 2:15 as opposed to 2:30...

Yep, but if him being there made the in/out take 3:55 min and not 4:05 he was taking away hours. Depending on the contract, that could be an extra 10 dollars to 50 dollars.

I'm not saying he should not have done it, but just throwing that out there.

A little history about this type of thing....

I have had a grievance filed against be when I was working in industry for replacing a light bulb in a wiring closet. The reason given was I was taking away work from another worker (I was working for a contractor). Had he been told to replace that light bulb he might have gotten pushed beyond 40 hours that week and gotten overtime. Because I changed the bulb I was taking away hours and therefore money from him. Instead, he got paid an extra 30 minutes for the week. This was in a steel mill, not in a theatre.

 

[cdub260]

Yep, but if him being there made the in/out take 3:55 min and not 4:05 he was taking away hours. Depending on the contract, that could be an extra 10 dollars to 50 dollars.

I'm not saying he should not have done it, but just throwing that out there.

A little history about this type of thing....

I have had a grievance filed against be when I was working in industry for replacing a light bulb in a wiring closet. The reason given was I was taking away work from another worker (I was working for a contractor). Had he been told to replace that light bulb he might have gotten pushed beyond 40 hours that week and gotten overtime. Because I changed the bulb I was taking away hours and therefore money from him. Instead, he got paid an extra 30 minutes for the week. This was in a steel mill, not in a theatre.

Stories such as this are just one of many things that give unions a bad name. In a non-union work environment, you'd have likely been praised for taking the initiative by fixing a minor problem without someone having to tell you to. This, in conjunction with a history of similar initiative taking, would then, likely have lead to additional hours, a raise, future employment, or any number of similar, positive results. Instead, you found yourself in trouble with the union.

Granted, I don't truly know how prevalent the strict boundaries between jobs is in the various IATSI locals but when taken too far, the protectionist attitude in Footer's example can very easily destroy the initiative and pride of workmanship that can make an employee an asset to a company. Additionally it can lead to a highly inefficient work environment by requiring a number of workers that far exceeds what is actually needed for a given job. Over an extended period of time, this degree of inefficiency can drive an employer out of business.

I have seen this happen. Six years ago, the Pageant of the Masters built a new scene shop. The steel siding contractor had an all union crew. The general contractor, the site foreman, our staff, and the other sub-contractors were absolutely blown away at how long it took to install the siding. Each individual on their crew had his assigned task and performed that task in as mediocre and slow a fashion as possible. I don't recall the exact figures, but I remember discussing with the site foreman what the subcontractor was paid for the job vs. what that sub-contractor's all union crew was paid. The difference between the two figures was astounding. If I remember correctly, what the sub-contractor was paid for the job was only about two thirds of what it cost him to pay the slugs on his crew because they deliberately dragged the job out as long as they could, milking it for every hour they could get. The owner of the company would have loved to fire the lot of them but because the union backed the workers without any consideration for what they were doing to the company, they were stuck with a crew that would eventually force the company to close its doors because they could not earn a profit on any of their jobs. Additionally, the quality of their work was far below the standards of the other, non-union sub-contractors on the job. Six years later, we're still trying to find all the leaks and it's the only aspect of the new building that we've had any problems with.

Unions were established for some very good reasons and have done a lot of good over the last century or so, but sometimes union protectionism damages employers to the point where they destroy the very jobs they're trying to protect. In order to protect its workers, a union also needs to consider what is in the best interests of the employer so that the employer will still be there to provide jobs. When a union loses sight of this, it becomes its members' worst enemy.