Late 60's

[PatMolinari]

Seeing this picture makes my heart hurt. This was brand new in our brand new 1600 seat theater. Kliegl system. 40 12K Dimmers and a Rual Slider type patch panel. 10 catwalks with about 250 drops. To see it in the current shape it is in just seems wrong. We never allowed any part of the Sherwood Hall to get like that. And some of the other old guys now remind me that I am Analog-Not Digital. They are right-but it is amazing what we were able to do back then.

 

[SteveB]

Kliegl made good stuff back then. I had a smaller but similar system, but Kliegl was close by and I could get stuff fixed. They’ve been out of business now 30 years or so (maybe not that long, not sure of the dates) and there are zero parts for this stuff. I’ve been thru 5 consoles since early 80’s, so that fact that this console still powers up much less turns anything on, is a remarkable feat.

 

[TimMc]

What @SteveB said. It's still in use, apparently, and its older than some of my bunions...

 

[JD]

The electronics are mostly discrete parts so on that end it could run for many years as long as someone was willing to service it. The cosmetic parts are a different story. As for analog vs digital, we did amazing things with the old analog stuff! Once you introduce movers, well that's the end of that. If you are just running conventionals and don't mind the scrambling to set up scenes, then the audience will never know. Unfortunatlly, we live in a "go button" world now so few would want to run it.

 

[RonHebbard]

The electronics are mostly discrete parts so on that end it could run for many years as long as someone was willing to service it. The cosmetic parts are a different story. As for analog vs digital, we did amazing things with the old analog stuff! Once you introduce movers, well that's the end of that. If you are just running conventionals and don't mind the scrambling to set up scenes, then the audience will never know. Unfortunatlly, we live in a "go button" world now so few would want to run it.

I'm sure you remember the 10 scene / 100 dimmer preset consoles of the late 60's. There was one in nearby Toronto.
Knees to shoulder high on the right side of the booth, one IA brother stood presetting 10 scenes / 50 dimmers.
Knees to shoulder high on the rear wall, a second brother stood presetting 10 scenes / 50 dimmers numbered 51 through 100.
The head LX sat facing out the window with his console in front of him.

His console was essentially two horizontal rows of 10 pushbuttons with a vertically oriented cross fader between them.
Actuate button 1 on the upper row and fade the fader up.
Actuate button 2 on the lower row and fade the fader down.
Snap cues: Move the cross fader quickly.
Ten minute fades simulating high noon transitioning to dinner time: Move the cross fader in very small increments while keeping an eye on your clock.
If the same look appears multiple times over the course of the show. Remember to skip over its pushbutton for re-use in another scene, perhaps in act 2.

Other than the above, there were 4 to 6 house light faders.
Possibly orchestra level, 1st balcony, 2nd balcony. Orchestra pit downlights, curtain wash, cleaning / work lights and a master. What more could you conceivably wish for?
From memory, I believe the "console" was from Century lighting in the U.S. Purportedly there were 1 or 2 others in Canada. Three or four scene / 20 to 40 dimmer consoles were far more common.
Timed fades? DMX?? You're hallucinating. Analog, wire per dimmer, was the order of the decade.
Compatibility of control voltage levels / polarity between different manufacturers??
You ARE on cheap drugs; right?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[PatMolinari]

The system I got to love and live with was a Kliegl built and installed Dimmer room with 40-12K dimmers and a few 12k and 7k house dimmers in 3 large racks along with Mains and Silver/Sand fuses. Just out of the dimmer room was the Rual/Ariel Davis slider Patch Panel and across the room looking down at the 7,000 sq ft stage was a beautiful 40 dimmer control console with 3 scene presets and 5 sub scene controls. I got to figure it out and learn and teach it to a lot of Stage Crew members over the first 8 years I was in charge there. That has been lots of time gone by now-but I still think often of it and am in touch with a couple of the guys that were on the original crew. Not much has changed down there except they don't seem to be able to do any maintenance on anything. Isn't it amazing that we can remember the early days but don't have a clue what happened yesterday? I hope you have a great day. Pat

 

[FMEng]

It's remarkable it still runs, which speaks well to its build quality. Stuff like that was built to last, which is harder to find these days. It might be possible to install a DMX D to A converter to control the old dimmers with a modern console. I'm surprised it hasn't been done already. Some institutions wait for it to die catastrophically before they'll do anything.

 

[JChenault]

I remember the slight noise the cross faders made on my console. I also remember how disappointed I was when I went to grad school, and discovered that their century board did not understand dip-less cross fades.

 

[JonCarter]

Ahhh, remember the days when the "dipless" cross fade was due to the brain, hands (and knees, and elbows, and feet) of the board operator!

 

[JD]

Dipless... That's why I always liked boards that had dual faders for crossfade so you could lead/lag with your fingers.

 

[MPowers]

I'm sure you remember the 10 scene / 100 dimmer preset consoles of the late 60's. There was one in nearby Toronto.
Knees to shoulder high on the right side of the booth, one IA brother stood presetting 10 scenes / 50 dimmers.
Knees to shoulder high on the rear wall, a second brother stood presetting 10 scenes / 50 dimmers numbered 51 through 100.
The head LX sat facing out the window with his console in front of him.

His console was essentially two horizontal rows of 10 pushbuttons with a vertically oriented cross fader between them.
Actuate button 1 on the upper row and fade the fader up.
Actuate button 2 on the lower row and fade the fader down.
Snap cues: Move the cross fader quickly.
Ten minute fades simulating high noon transitioning to dinner time: Move the cross fader in very small increments while keeping an eye on your clock.
If the same look appears multiple times over the course of the show. Remember to skip over its pushbutton for re-use in another scene, perhaps in act 2.

Other than the above, there were 4 to 6 house light faders.
Possibly orchestra level, 1st balcony, 2nd balcony. Orchestra pit downlights, curtain wash, cleaning / work lights and a master. What more could you conceivably wish for?
From memory, I believe the "console" was from Century lighting in the U.S. Purportedly there were 1 or 2 others in Canada. Three or four scene / 20 to 40 dimmer consoles were far more common.
Timed fades? DMX?? You're hallucinating. Analog, wire per dimmer, was the order of the decade.
Compatibility of control voltage levels / polarity between different manufacturers??
You ARE on cheap drugs; right?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

I remember back in grad school, 1972, Indiana U. Bloomington. Ten scene, 100 dimmers, that's a 1,000 preset faders. There were 400 circuits and a telephone operator type patch panel in the basement. It was insane running a show or trying to track a show. Two people pre-setting, two patching and the poor board op just praying the other four people had finished their work before he moved whatever slider, sub master or master fader that was ”supposed” to control the next Que!

 

[RonHebbard]

I remember back in grad school, 1972, Indiana U. Bloomington. Ten scene, 100 dimmers, that's a 1,000 preset faders. There were 400 circuits and a telephone operator type patch panel in the basement. It was insane running a show or trying to track a show. Two people pre-setting, two patching and the poor board op just praying the other four people had finished their work before he moved whatever slider, sub master or master fader that was ”supposed” to control the next Que!

When I mentioned the height of the presets on the right and rear walls, I believe I said each were from knees to shoulders.
In retrospect I was incorrect. I was a short visitor from near by Hamilton. Our theatre opened in the fall of 1973 and our head LX had formerly been one of the assistant LX's in Toronto's Okeefe Centre. The two brothers from IA58 were both quite tall, although one of them couldn't reach the top preset.
I'll revise my guesstimate each preset's height and say knees to bout as high as a ~6' brother could stretch.

When I spoke of the LX console, I said two horizontal rows of 10 pushbuttons with a vertically oriented cross fader between them .
Each row had an 11th button, effectively preset zero providing for fading to black without have to clear any of the 10 presets.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[Ted jones]

I also remember 10 scene preset controllers. We had one at Towson U in MD. (We also had Edcotrons (spelling?) in the studio theater. A very unreliable, portable system.) There was an older 10 scene at Baltimore Junior College. I only used two of the presets on either of them. It was easier that way and kept my confusion level down.

There is a guy here in Chicago that used to service them. Parts, however, are an issue.

Break a leg with it.

T

 

[Mac Hosehead]

Since Edkotrons and crossfaders were mentioned, I remember they had a crossfade unit where you would plug two or more 6-channel controllers into and it would crossfade the console power from one unit to the other. You needed a Y control cable. I don't think it was dipless.

 

[JChenault]

Since Edkotrons and crossfaders were mentioned, I remember they had a crossfade unit where you would plug two or more 6-channel controllers into and it would crossfade the console power from one unit to the other. You needed a Y control cable. I don't think it was dipless.

i used an Edkotron system set up as a two scene preset in early 1970’s At the Asolo theatre. My memory is that there was a separate edkotron control unit with a single cross fader and it was dipless. there was no ability to do a Lead / Lag crossfade But the cross fade was ok.

 

[Mac Hosehead]

Your description is how I remember it. Interesting to know it was dipless. I think I only used it as a Grand Master.

 

[ship]

Ibid on many analog to a lesser extent. Yea, I with training would never understand the progamming of the Q-File systm backup board... so if there was a problem... I would just start hitting buttons for light, re-start the main light board and hit another buttons for another cue in the mean time. Remember I successfully programmed the Q-File for a scene a few times... but not sufficient to use.

Was fine with what I could do on many 80's thru 90' modern gear, but didn't need moving light peramaters screwing up what worked in control. Went onto other types of stuff to do for a living. Lost in this new world for the most part in not keeping up with post 90's technology. Working on modernizing myself with like a century of progress in lighting control over the last 20 years for light board control. Less so for touring rock and roll, more for so for a small thater install, so I can at least bring up a light.

My challenge, and liking the whole (rgn?) fixture address to network so... in me missing the concept of DMX addressing.... no having to find someone to either cell phone address it, or knows which dip switch.... it gets done in recognizing a IP address for the fixture, and I can just install it.

I'll go up into the crawl space under the 1924 proscenium openening thru a hatch under the organ. Remove the same age lights from the proscenium in down light. Plug in the modern replacements for them, for data and power. Let them address themselves. Than restore to factory spec the lighs I remove.... best deal for me in learning from the old lights, .

 

[Ted jones]

Your description is how I remember it. Interesting to know it was dipless. I think I only used it as a Grand Master.

My, fading, memory thinks the Edkotron was dipless. Thanks for the auto-correct on the spelling. I couldn't find any reference to the bloody things on Google. Just as well. Their only redeeming value was that they were truly portable at 30/40 LB per module as opposed to the "portable" Luxtrol 6 x 3600's that were the standard in the early 70's. 350 LB. Ugggg.

T

 

[derekleffew]

(We also had Edcotrons (spelling?)

My, fading, memory thinks the Edkotron was dipless. Thanks for the auto-correct on the spelling. I couldn't find any reference to the bloody things on Google.

Perhaps remembering from whence the name came will aid recall in correct spelling:

I worked with a Century Edkotron system (greenish brown version) at the Penthouse Theatre at the Univ. of Washington in 1971 or 1972.
Don't believe it was very old at the time. Interesting units, named after Edward Kook, one of Century's founders.

I guess "Leko" wasn't good enough, Eddie wanted all of the credit for his dimmer.

 

[Ted jones]

Perhaps remembering from whence the name came will aid recall in correct spelling:
I guess "Leko" wasn't good enough, Eddie wanted all of the credit for his dimmer.

This must be my day! Auto-corrected twice!