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LED color wash lights

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by churchmouse, Oct 3, 2008.

  1. churchmouse

    churchmouse Member

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    I need some help. I want to change a church gym, with high grey cinder block walls, into a banquet hall. I really feel LED lighting is the way to go. The church is on a budget, but we don't want to buy junk. I was looking at the Jam Star Elite lights until I read some old threads about how they are probably just a front for more Chinese junk. Initially the lights would be used as uplights to break up the ugly walls until we could afford to purchase enough lights to totally wash the walls in color. I know little about lighting so my head is swimming with lots of mis-information. I could really use some suggestions! :confused:
     
  2. jerekb

    jerekb Member

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    Specs? Do you have Dimmers, Console, what type of power supply? If you have a good power supply I would go with a couple of large blinders with some color gels.
     
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  3. churchmouse

    churchmouse Member

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    The gym is the size of a basketball court. The lights would need to stand on the floor and shine up - therefore for safety reasons LED is best. There are multiple AC outlets to plug into - power isn't a problem. I am starting from scratch with nothing. Originally the lights would be stand alone and later I could daisy chain them and connect to a DMX board. I read that lights with a "hold DMX" feature are nice because you can program them using a Pocket Console and eliminate the cables. However these might be too pricey. Thanks for your reply - fellow Coloradoan.
     
  4. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    You have three options:
    1. Incandescent PAR type lamp, which you've dismissed for safety reasons.
    2. Proven quality fixtures like the CK ColorBlast12, PixelRange PixelPar, and Coemar ParLite, at $1000-$2000 each. Beyond your budget, and probably not a wise investment with the technology advancing so rapdily.
    3. What you deem "cheap Chinese junk." This would have to include the offerings of ADJ and Chauvet (though often not inexpensive) as well as brands such as NeoNeon, Wiedamark, and countless "generic" cans.

    This product, currently on ebay for $69.96, (+$29.95 shipping!) Looks intriguing for your intended purpose. Just understand that it's not going to be very bright, and must be thought of as disposable, because if it breaks, it will cost more to repair than to replace.
    [​IMG]

    edit: So contact [user]BillESC[/user] privately and I'm sure he could at least do better on shipping. Also, since he rents and sells them on a daily basis, he could give us a fair and unbiased evaluation. Bill, judging from this picture, it looks as though it's a PAR46-sized can, rather than a PAR64? (Another reason not to be fooled by size, quantity of LEDs, or wattage.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2008
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  5. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    That's our LE14.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. David Ashton

    David Ashton Active Member

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    Occupation:
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    This thread is a classic example of the expectations people have about leds, to light a gym would cost how much? maybe $250,00, even then it would be bright but certainly not even,I meet similar expectations on a weekly basis, which is why I try to bring a dose of reality back to these types of threads.
     
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  7. churchmouse

    churchmouse Member

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    Thanks for your ideas! Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree trying to light up a gym. I realize the lights in a gym won't look like lights in a white tent, but I was hoping to soften the looks of the cold walls by placing a light every 15-20 feet rather then wash all the walls in color. I went to the Wiedamark site and wondered if the Colorwasher 252 or Color Bar 19 (under LED wall washers) might work better than a Par cam? I have been assuming that the more LED's in a fixture the better it would be for my applications. That's why I didn't think a Par64 was really what I needed. I still have a lot to learn!:confused:
     
  8. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Occupation:
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    I know you said that you don't want to use conventional fixtures due to safety concerns, but you will get the most bang for your buck if you use either standard PAR Cans or ETC's Source 4 PARs. A new Aluminum PAR64 should run you no more than $56 including connector and color frame. Lamps are usually about $25. So at $80 per fixture you get at least two PAR Cans for the price of one low end LED fixture.

    In the grand scheme of lighting gear, PAR Cans are the cheapest workhorse units. They are light weight, don't require tons of maintenance, and are easy to work with. For your application they will do exactly what you want, just thrown in some cuts of color and you are set. Also, they don't require any type of controller to turn them on and set colors. Simple to set up, simple to operate, and simple to take care of. That is what you want.
     
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  9. churchmouse

    churchmouse Member

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    I know this is a dumb question, but could I use white LED PAR Cams with color gels rather than using color LED PAR Cams? Since these will be standing on the floor, I really have to be careful that children don't touch them and get burned. Otherwise, I know you're right about using conventional fixtures. Thanks.
     
  10. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Irradiant has just completed the re-lighting of a church gym with the Sun Wash AW fixture.

    The numbers are very interesting. Based on 60,000 hours of usage, this is how things look.

    Original 24 fixture 400w Metal Halide high bay fixtures.

    Fixture cost: $ 150.00 = $ 3,600.00
    Lamp replacement (3 @ $ 25.00 per fixture) $ 1,800.00
    Energy consumption @ $ .12 KwH $ 69,000.00

    Total Cost of Operation (excluding labor and replacement ballasts) $ 74,400.00

    Sun Wash AW replacement system.

    Fixture cost: $ 1500.00 = $ 36,000.00
    Lamp replacement - $ 0.00
    Energy consumption @ $ .12 KwH $ 25,416.00

    Total cost of operation $ 61,416.00

    No consideration has been given to the HVAC costs for cooling the heat generated by the twenty four 400w metal halide system.

    All and all, the new LED system will save considerable money, energy and labor over the long run. The Sun Wash AW also offers the ability to adjust the color temperature of the fixture from 3000k to 10000k which is a nice feature.

    [​IMG]

    For more information visit the link below.

    SUN WASH AW / SRL-6349W
     
  11. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    While I do see the significant cost savings in Bill's scenario, I think that for many people the upfront cost of $36K is hard to come up with. $3.6K is much more manageable for many, and the $600 expense for lamps every 2.2 years of constant service is pretty small.

    Don't get me wrong, I think that LEDs are great and the energy savings and the waste savings is very important (not to mention the color mixing capabilities), but I still find it amazingly difficult to justify the upfront cost.
     
  12. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    $56+25<$69.95? Cost of gels and lamps, not to mention power and HVAC? I'm not saying LEDs are ready to light a stage, but are perfect for creating atmosphere and ambiance.

    I was using the ParCan-type as an example, but a wall-wash fixture may fit your application better. [user]churchmouse[/user], my favorite LED fixture is the CK ColorBlast 12, but out of your price range. The Weidamark ColorWasher252, or similar, would likely meet your needs. Check with Bill or your local lighting vendor for a demo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2008
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  13. David Ashton

    David Ashton Active Member

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    Could I ask what the light intensity was with the halides and is now with the leds, that little detail was missing.To give the same light with 30% of the power means that leds are 3 times more efficient than metal halides- I don't think so, unless I missed some major breakthrough.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2008
  14. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    I haven't compared them to the new products mentioned above, but this what I use and I'm pretty happy with them. Used LED Par 64 - Version 2 - Black For Sale I have an older version and the difference is that mine required building a base and they don't have the dmx display.

    I've heard a lot of delivery problems with JamStar, but have no actual experience. Buying from Bill you won't be disappointed, tho.
     
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  15. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Here's a few quick shots with a cheap camera of the Sun Wash AW.

    The fixture.
    [​IMG]

    Amber LEDs only.
    [​IMG]

    White LEDs only.
    [​IMG]

    White and amber LEDs.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. cdub260

    cdub260 CBMod CB Mods

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    I've just got a minor correction for you. They're par cans, not par cams. A can is a container, in the case of the classic par can, containing a lamp with a parabolic reflector. A cam is the shaft on the engine in your car that operates the intake and exhaust valves.

    As for wash lights for your walls, I did a quick Google search and came across the American DJ Color Fusion. It's a wash light with RGB color mixing capability and if I'm reading the spec's on it right, uses a lamp you can pick up at any hardware store. I can't comment on its performance or reliability as I've never used this instrument, but depending on your source they sell for $200.00 to $280.00 a piece.
     
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  17. cancolby

    cancolby Member

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    Hi
    I'm no expert, but I bought four Chauvet ColorPalette's recently for something, and they're brighter than I expected. They cost $229 each, barley take any power, you can choose a color for stand-alone, or hook them up with DMX. Here's what they look like at night in front of my house (the blue on the balcony is a Chauvet ColorStrip (a different light)). It's a big 2-story house. They obviously wouldn't be as bright with ambient light around. On the bottom picture here, one light makes the purple, two (from both sides) make the yellowish, and one makes the blue on the left.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. churchmouse

    churchmouse Member

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    C.W. thanks for correcting my CAN/cam error. I really do know the difference, but for some reason I just keep typing m instead of n - must be a senior moment.
     
  19. JohnA

    JohnA Active Member

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    Those pics were quite helpful. Can you advise what size the LEDs are on the color pallette? Thanks
     
  20. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    Chauvet

    It's got standard LEDs, not high power Luxeons or Rebels or equivalent. It's got 288 of them, though. I think that they're the 5mm variety.

    Oh, and it can be had for $170 if you go to the right people. $219 is a bit much for this fixture IMO.
     
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