Lifts

[FMEng]

I see OSHA regs quoted and arguments ensue over whether they apply. OSHA regs are often superseded by more stringent regulation by states, school districts, and even insurance carriers. Furthermore, even if OSHA doesn't apply to non-employees, shouldn't volunteers and students be SAFE? Those regs should be a MINIMUM standard in every work and school environment, whether they legally apply or not.

Furthermore, we can argue over whether being harnessed into the basket is a good idea, but most of the time it is required. Those rules, like most safety regs, were written in blood and hundreds of accidents were studied as they were created. We don't always know better than the regulators.

I think it is great that they want to train you. Take the training and buy some harnesses (in a variety of sizes), lanyards, and hard hats. (Hard hats for the ground crew, too.) The rental company may charge a small fee for the training, but it is brief and easy.

 

[Floridaskye]

You go to the BA and get a new hand in there.

I have had to tell the BA of an IA to get out of my shop because he was not wearing the proper safety gear. He had to comply otherwise he would have been out of a job. It really is that simple.

I agree that it's a good principal to do such things and in my current position I probably would ask them to leave my shop. However as a technician on a broadway tour telling them to leave the theatre for using a Genie improperly and costing the rental house thousands of dollars would have undoubtedly cost my job. Now you may say I should have upheld the standards regardless of the cost but in todays job market I simply couldn't afford to be self righteous. I applaud anyone who would give up their livelihood over regulations but I'm not one of them.

 

[derekleffew]

It was just a few years ago that I stopped a road-crew truss spot op about to climb a wire rope ladder without a harness. I merely said "Where's your harness?" and he stormed off, grumbling about "how they would have to have to hold the show to wait for him, yada yada." But I could tell he knew I was right and he should have known better than to try. I was not in any position of authority, just a deck hand assigned to hold the bottom of the ladder.

Less than two minutes later, while the other guy who arrived wearing a harness was climbing, he came back wearing the harness. He made it to his light in plenty of time.

 

[FMEng]

The whole "removing the outriggers" debate is one which I don't want to get deeply embroiled in, but I will say that one venue I work at has a Cougar lift which has so-called "special" mode - it has a keylock which if activated means the pressure switches on the outriggers are disabled so you can go up without them. This was put in because the lift is often used up against a wall, and with all four outriggers out, you cannot reach what you need to because the bucket is too far away from the wall. The bypass is never used in normal situations, and only the venue tech has the key for it - so what is more dangerous - using the lift with two outriggers up against a wall and staying safely in the bucket, or using it with all four outriggers and having to lean dangerously out of the bucket to reach what you need to? I should add that the lift does have the appropriate inspections, and the inspectors are perfectly happy with this arrangement.

The answer is simple. You use the lift according to the manufacturer's recommendation. If the wall switch was factory installed, go ahead and use it. If not, throw away the key. Chances are, the operation manual explains what to do against a wall. If you don't have the manual you can download it from the manufacturer's web site.

 

[Floridaskye]

It was just a few years ago that I stopped a road-crew truss spot op about to climb a wire rope ladder without a harness. I merely said "Where's your harness?" and he stormed off, grumbling about "how they would have to have to hold the show to wait for him, yada yada." But I could tell he knew I was right and he should have known better than to try. I was not in any position of authority, just a deck hand assigned to hold the bottom of the ladder.

Less than two minutes later, while the other guy who arrived wearing a harness was climbing, he came back wearing the harness. He made it to his light in plenty of time.

I'm glad you spoke up, and I agree with you completely that things like this should be taken seriously. My stance on all of this is simply that people need to think of safety before convenience. My problem in the industry right now is that people don't and when you do confront them most of the time you get nowhere. When you see everyone doing something wrong like using a genie lift without the outriggers or being pushed around the stage in the upright position or something simple as people not wearing close toed shoes it seems almost impossible to do anything about it. On one occasion I did mention to the ME on the RENT tour that he should be using the outriggers. He simply responded that they do it all the time and if I had a problem they could replace me. I told my TD at the time and he simply told me to let them work. As a TD now myself I have control and in my own space I run a tight crew and a safe crew. I think there has been a lot of confusion overall as to what I was trying to say.

 

[cdub260]

I think there has been a lot of confusion overall as to what I was trying to say.

And let that be a lesson to all of us about the importance of proof reading before we post.

When I read your initial post, it certainly sounded to me like you were telling OSHA what they could do with their regulations. Had you worded your post a little differently, I probably would have gotten your real meaning.

Thank you for clarifying your position in subsequent posts.

 

[Grog12]

You all are overlooking one matter in this subject when it comes to the age limitation.

Insurance Company.

It has nothing to do with the law. There is no law that you can't rent a car unles you're 25. Insurance agencies prevent you from renting the car.

The insurance company wants you to be a "responsible" adult who can make informed descisions on how to die accidently.

 

[soundman]

It has nothing to do with the law. There is no law that you can't rent a car unles you're 25. Insurance agencies prevent you from renting the car.

You can rent a car when you are under 25. It simply costs an extra $30 something a day.

On the subject of insurance in a scenario where you are working for someone and not following the rules and reg for the activity, using a saw with out eye protection, working at heights with out proper equipment what ever causes you to be injured I would imagine you will have a hard time convincing someone to pay for your medical care. Your health insurance will want it handled by work, as you were working. If work's insurance company can prove you were acting in an unsafe way they will not pay your claim.

Insurance companies do not make profit when they pay out on claims, do not give them any additional reasons not to pay you.

 

[Grog12]

You can rent a car when you are under 25. It simply costs an extra $30 something a day.

.

Heh, didn't work that way when I was 23. Glad to know there's a way to do it now.

 

[jstachowiak]

OSHA and the manufacturer's require a harness and lanyard in boom type lifts for cataputling protection as fall restraint and it is NOT fall protection nor fall arrest.

If a lift tips over (or "upsets" as the JLG manuals state) you are likely dead or seriously injured of which the harness and lanyard does nothing to help your situtation or hurt your situation.

FIRST and FOREMOST get TRAINING from an Aerial Work Platform company or rental company that rents AWP equipment. Classroom should be about 2 to 3 hours and then there should be a hands-on session.

Regarding people 18 years old in these lifts, your insurance company for the company or institution will answer that question. I have this sneeking suspicion that the answer will be NO. Like "All the President's Men" follow the money. Who will pay if that student of 18 years old hurts himself? That is who will answer your question.

While tipover or upset is a hazard you whould be worried about the most likely hazard is crushing your fingers or worse your body or head.

Get professional training PLEASE. This is serious and a serious accident can happen to the untrained operator.

 

[mstaylor]

The only time I have questioned an OSHA guy on lift rules was a couple of years ago. I was working in an 85ft lift beside a lagoon with a 6ft max depth. He said he wanted a full body harness plus a life vest in case I hit the water. I explained he wanted me tied to a machine with a vest designed to pop me up and out of the lift. Beside the fact that I could stand up in the water, he was insisting on devices that would work in opposite diections if I did hit the water and could lead to catastrophic injury. My last point was that if I was at height, I would hit the next building. They let me go.
That is not the only run-in or argument I have had with OSHA but they are generally interp discussions. I am certified to certify ops on lifts and forks. I also install permanent safety equipment.

 

[midgetgreen11]

The lift company came back and said they will not train anyone without a valid driver's license or anyone under the age of 18. We have no access to our coves for this show now. Will the mention of the OSHA code help at all?

 

[Les]

The lift company came back and said they will not train anyone without a valid driver's license or anyone under the age of 18. We have no access to our coves for this show now. Will the mention of the OSHA code help at all?

Probably not. Their lift, their rules. They should have designed your school better.

 

[Footer]

Your up a creak on this one. Its not an unreasonable request on the part of the lift company. It could be possible to shop around for a company that will let you use it after being trained. If it makes you feel any better, most car rental shops won't let you rent a car until your in your mid 20's. Ok, that does not make you feel better, but...

There was a school in Chicago that had this same access issue. They built catwalks and would not allow the students to go up in them. Somehow they convinced the school to buy them a VL1k to place every 3' across all of their battens that they could not access.