Hi. I am currently looking for a live digital mixer that is moterized and intergrates to a computer. The idea is to have something with 32 channels, or 16 with a lightpipe option for adding more channels later, that can either be controlled manually or from the computer, with options for accessing on computer effects plugins, e.g. Lexicon reverb, various compressers, eq's and such. My Goal is to create a live sound/live off the floor recording system that allows me to run the main's the moniters and the pro-tools seasion, by myself, all the while keeping the amount of gear as small as possible. The board does not need to run without the computer.
Mixers/Consoles Looking for live digital mixer
- Thread startertsidewalk
- Start date
Probably the most common used small digital mixer in the pro world is the Yamaha 01v96. You can expand it via lightpipe, and you can use a pc to control it. You would have to have the PC in the audio chain if you wanted to use plugins on the PC. Presonus has some units that are now coming to market, but the 01v96 with full motorized faders etc etc so far is the "standard"
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/47874/0/
Sharyn
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/47874/0/
Sharyn
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The 01v, 02R, and DM1000 would all do what you need. If you want protools integration Digi does have some consoles out.
I don't know of any console that requires you to have a computer hooked up to it to operate. Really, the Yamaha line runs just fine even if you never hook up studio manager. Is there a reason that a computer has to be in the line?
I don't know of any console that requires you to have a computer hooked up to it to operate. Really, the Yamaha line runs just fine even if you never hook up studio manager. Is there a reason that a computer has to be in the line?
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The reason i am looking for the computer intergration is so i am able to access effects plugin's eg. Lexicon Reverb, without having to have racks of gear. Also for live shows at the same veniue with the same band i can save my presets from the night before so that that way setup is way faster. Granted things will sound different night to night but i can make ajustments once it's loaded in.
Basically what i am looking for is a board to do live sound with a link to the computer so that i can control it from the comp. and add access effects as i see fit, with the prossessing happening on the board
Basically what i am looking for is a board to do live sound with a link to the computer so that i can control it from the comp. and add access effects as i see fit, with the prossessing happening on the board
epimetheus
Well-Known Member
Yamaha LS9. I'd take this over the 01V any day. Granted it's also twice the price for the LS9-16. I ran an LS9-16 with an additional 8 channels via lightpipe for 4+ years at my previous church. No complaints what-so-ever.
Edit: You don't need a computer. Everything you described doing with the computer can be done inside almost any digital board out there. I'm only familiar with the Yamaha boards myself - I know they can do everything you require without a computer. And you can also connect and operate almost completely via computer should you choose to.
Edit: You don't need a computer. Everything you described doing with the computer can be done inside almost any digital board out there. I'm only familiar with the Yamaha boards myself - I know they can do everything you require without a computer. And you can also connect and operate almost completely via computer should you choose to.
This goes a bit beyond what I have done with digital consoles. You can do the saving and such on studio manager in the Yamaha line. The newer consoles allow you to save a show right to a thumb drive hooked up to the console.
Search Results | Lexicon Pro
That gives you an idea of what you would need to do to use the Lexicon reverb plates. I don't know if you can import 3rd party effects into the hardware. I have never had the desire to do that.
The yamaha line does have a pretty good effect generator built in along with good EQ's, compressors, limiters, and all that fun stuff.
Search Results | Lexicon Pro
That gives you an idea of what you would need to do to use the Lexicon reverb plates. I don't know if you can import 3rd party effects into the hardware. I have never had the desire to do that.
The yamaha line does have a pretty good effect generator built in along with good EQ's, compressors, limiters, and all that fun stuff.
Most digital consoles have basic effects and processing integrated into the console. However, if you want to use third-party plug-ins then one option is what Sharyn suggested, in effect using the computer as an external effects and processing device with any digital console. Note that this will not allow the plug-ins processing and settings to be part of any console scene/preset store and recall or controlled via the console (unless you deal with that via MIDI or other separate communication). Another option might be the Digidesign Venue SC48 that comes with a bundle of third-party plug-ins and has numerous others available that run on the console itself and thus can be part of scene store and recall.
+1 for the LS9 although I would suggest looking at the LS9-32 over the -16. You say you want 32 channels now, and for the LS9-16 that would be maxed out and you would be mixing on two layers. Unless you already have the preamps, the cost of buying a 16 channel board plus good quality preamps will be close to the cost of just buying the 32 channel LS9. Instead, go with the Ls9-32, and get all 32 faders on the top layer plus room to grow.
As far as your computer interface, The ls9 will run without the laptop, although there are several things that I find faster/easier to do via my laptop, patching for example has a much better interface. There are also things that are done easier from the surface, like mixing.
As far as remote control for multitrack recording...I think the DM1000 is the only board outside the Digidesign family that interfaces with Protools and I've found that to be difficult to get around on, although once you get used to it I'm sure the workflow becomes easier. As a practical matter, having one person responsible for mains, monitors, and multitrack is a lot to expect on a show that needs a 32 channel desk.
Effects on the LS9 are decent. There four engines for effects and the list of possible effects include the usual delays choruses, verbs, flangers, each with multiple adjustable parmeters. This is in addition to the 4 bands of 1/3 octave eq, patchable anywhere, and in addition to the comp, gate, and 4 band parametric eq on each input and output. All of it is controlable from either the surface or the computer. My LS9-32 replaced a GA3210, a 20 space dynamics/drive rack, and an 10 space toy rack.
bishopthomas
Well-Known Member
Knowing a budget and further requirements would help (such as monitor mixes, need for matrices, etc). The LS9 is a great console for the money and is very easily and reliably driven by a computer running Studio Manager, wirelessly with any off the shelf wireless router. A friend of mine just bought the Presonus StudioLive and really likes it, but it's more in league with the O1V. Of course, if you are running a ProTools system to record (and you have the cash) the Digidesign Venue integrates seemlessly and you'll have all of the same plug ins you're used to.
Let's setry to summarize the apparent goals in the above:
- Motorized faders
- Computer remote control
- A minimum of 32 inputs
- Compatibility with common processing and effects plug-ins
- Ability to mix house, monitors and recording
- Compatibility with existing or planned ProTools rig
- Ability to save and recall setups
- Any requirements for aux buses, console outputs, Groups/DCAs, etc.
- Whether offline editing is required
- The Experience and ability of the operators
- Whether this is part of a new facility or system or is a direct replacement for some existing mixer
- Any tech rider considerations
- Any basic application information (i.e. what are the use and users?)
- Budgetary goals or limitations
So the intagration into protools isn't an issue for the board cause a splitter with a preamp racks into a ProFire Lightbrige into Pro-tools M-powered will handle that. The porpuse of the digital board is to cut down or eliminate the number of effects racks i need to move around. Also for when and if i return to a venue with a group i will have the settings saved from last time, to make set up faster. The third party effects would be nice but not nesessary. All that i need to be able to control the sound coming from the mains and the moniters from the computer if i need to change something on the fly while checking on the protools session. Either in the effects or on the mix. By the way thanks for everyone's input so far. I know its been a bit of a brain scratcher for me.
So the questions that were asked answers
as for aux sends i am not sure as of yet.
The Offline editing not required as it will be done later in protools as stated in my last post.
Experience currently is ameture. Will be sound major next year in college, so should be better then.
This will be part of a new system
part of the setup is to be able to cross over into movies as a sound recordist sending the audio to the camera and making pro-tools backups.
Also for live shows for bands looking to make either live albums or to make demo's to send to labels.
Bugitare goals are what it takes to do get something that does what i need.
As stated the third party effects are not nessesary but would be nice.
as for aux sends i am not sure as of yet.
The Offline editing not required as it will be done later in protools as stated in my last post.
Experience currently is ameture. Will be sound major next year in college, so should be better then.
This will be part of a new system
part of the setup is to be able to cross over into movies as a sound recordist sending the audio to the camera and making pro-tools backups.
Also for live shows for bands looking to make either live albums or to make demo's to send to labels.
Bugitare goals are what it takes to do get something that does what i need.
As stated the third party effects are not nessesary but would be nice.
Ok, so it sounds like you know a bit of stuff about how it's all going to be used, but i keep reading your posts, and I get the sense that you don't quite know what exactly you are looking for...
I would suggest you do a bit of research for your self on some of these boards we're talking about, specifically the digidesign stuff and the yamaha boards.
In terms of you auxs and additional busses, you'll want to think how you're routing all the outputs - each band member have their own mix? Audio feeds off a matrix or group? etc...
People here recommend the LS9... Coming from an M7, that thing seems like an "M7 light".
Also, set a realistic budget... saying whatever it takes might get you some answers that you don't really need... for example, look up the Digidesign D-Command
Yes i am currently looking up the recommended boards. I have been struggling to find the info on controling it from the computer. I am currently looking through the manuals now. I will post more stuff later once i get what i can out of the manuals. Thanks for getting me started guys. when i was searching digital boards i was struggling to find anything close to what i was looking for. this is giving me very good places to start. thank you to all who posted, for your time and input.
if you WANT to know how the interface is from the computer, dl the offline editor. It's (usually) the EXACT same thing you'll be using to run the mixer... case in point: Yamaha (M7CL). Either i run Studio manager alone (in my home) and work off files i've loaded from the computer, or I take it in and plug it in, then work live off the board. Of course, actually using the interface is easier for me... Not really sure why you'd NEED computer control, unless the computer and the mixer are more than 3 feet from each other...
well, i guess you could use it to run monitor mixes from stage...
I've designed several systems that seem to have the same basic goals (simultaneous live sound, multi-track audio recording using ProTools and video production) and yet I'm still rather confused on some of the comments. For example, offline editing has to do with being able to configure and setup the mixer without being at the mixer and has nothing to do with ProTools. Another example has to do with the preamps as I'm confused on the plan there, there seem to be splitters that were not previously noted. I'm also not clear on why you would send audio to a camera. It also sounds like you may be a bit confused on some of this yourself.
I find that it helps to first ignore the equipment, instead of focusing on products focus on the overall goals and requirements. Then as you get into the system design keep the perspective that it is a system, not just a bunch of equipment but an integrated system that has to all work together as effectively as possible.
That Digidesign D-Command looks nice, the last two systems like this that I designed had an SSL AWS 900+ on one and an SSL C200 on the other for the recording mix and DAW control. The first system used passive Jensen transformer splits and a A&H iLive for FOH, the other used Aphex 1788A preamps and a second SSL C200 for FOH. It is important to note that both of those facilities were educational institutions but also had full time, experienced staff and faculty with the systems professionally designed and installed.
I find that it helps to first ignore the equipment, instead of focusing on products focus on the overall goals and requirements. Then as you get into the system design keep the perspective that it is a system, not just a bunch of equipment but an integrated system that has to all work together as effectively as possible.
That Digidesign D-Command looks nice, the last two systems like this that I designed had an SSL AWS 900+ on one and an SSL C200 on the other for the recording mix and DAW control. The first system used passive Jensen transformer splits and a A&H iLive for FOH, the other used Aphex 1788A preamps and a second SSL C200 for FOH. It is important to note that both of those facilities were educational institutions but also had full time, experienced staff and faculty with the systems professionally designed and installed.
sorry about that. that was my bad. I thought that when you guys said offline editing you guys were talking about something else. sorry. I'm still (by comparison to you guys still very inexperienced). I have done a far mount of stuff on sound boards but all analog. Digital boards are new territory for me. But it is looking like The Yamaha boards will do what i want them to in combination with studio manager. If you guys have any other ideas for me or any tips on sound in general let me know. Thanks for all your help.
bishopthomas
Well-Known Member
I think you may be making it more difficult than it really needs to be. This is only because you're new to this and not sure exactly how to express what it is that you're after. But in trying to read into what you're trying to accomplish it sounds like you just need some kind of basic digital mixer with 32 channels or more. They basically all do what you are trying to do, just some more easily (and with better sound) than others. You have your Fords (O1V, StudioLive, LS9), Audis (M7CL, iLive T series, SC48, SD8, VI4) and then the BMW's and Mercedes (PM5D, Profile, D5 Live, SD7, etc). They all have wheels and will get you to where you're going, but what would you rather drive - a Ford or a BMW? Not a perfect metaphor, I know, but enough where I think you'll get the point.
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