Control/Dimming Luminaire iPad vs DMXIS (or similar)

[BadRad]

I've been using DMXIS for the last 2 years. I like the software a lot, but have had trouble dealing with the hardware issues - because I'm performing live and need an extremely portable and reliable setup that needs to be controlled and monitored remotely. I've had numerous issues between the DMX interface, USB ports losing connection or just tedious cabling setups that make troubleshooting a time consuming process. Currently, I need 2 DMX ports - one for DMXIS, and another one for a USB hub with MIDI and audio interfaces hanging off of it.

So - looking at some other options. Wondering if Luminair on the iPad might help with a few issues, though I'm also not sure if it offers me the configuration flexibility of DMXIS. It seems I can potentially run artnet over Wifi to another system with a USB controller (I have another laptop running Ableton, though I'm not sure how much extra load that would be), and it appears Luminaire accepts CoreMIDI - which I believe I can run wirelessly, as well - correct? Of course, wireless sounds nice, but it could cause me as many problems as I have now - so I probably also need to understand ways to hard cable both DMX and MIDI, if possible.

Essentially, I need a DMX controller that allows me to organize multiple scenes within different songs. I need to be able to select songs via external MIDI control (I have a master setlist app that hits all MIDI controlled gear for each song), and also step through scenes via MIDI footswitch control (I have plenty of MIDI controllers at my disposal). I will not be able to use the iPad touch interface for any control, though I will need to be able to monitor that status of each scene from several feet away while performing.

Is Luminaire up to this type of use? Or is it better only when using from the iPad's touch interface.

Any other options I can look at from a purely tablet based app? I'm aware I can run DMXIS from something like a Surface Pro, though I'm interested in looking at other potential solutions to compare.

 

[cbrandt]

I only have one experience with Luminaire, so take this with a grain of salt. I found it obtuse and frustrating to get anything patched and programmed on. It might have been the wireless network/hardware issues, but connectivity was a problem. This was a relatively robust wireless system connecting me to a single universe artnet node, and I had a lot of trouble with getting connected and staying connected, no matter how loosely or tightly I made settings.

That being said, the literature speaks of a lot of easy to obtain and interface connection add-ons for things like midi. I would be wary, with how obtuse I found the rest of the programming on the interface.

For that kind of setup, I'd look towards something running your software on stage, and then connecting to it via your preferred tablet interface. M-PC and Hog 4 (and GrandMA I believe) have nice OSC interfaces that you can customize to your preferences. I think you have to upgrade to one of their more expensive pro dongles (which gets you the two dmx universes you want) but chamsys also has a pretty robust wireless interface.

I'm always leery of any completely wireless control. I've seen wireless fail to often, after the crowd rolls in and everyone's cell phone is searching for wifi and crowding up the frequency.

 

[BadRad]

I only have one experience with Luminaire, so take this with a grain of salt. I found it obtuse and frustrating to get anything patched and programmed on.

I haven't yet found an inexpensive system (<$1k) that isn't. I'll test the demo out, but I'm fairly patient when it comes to dealing with systems that aren't overly intuitive. My biggest concern is control and reliability in a live situation.

It might have been the wireless network/hardware issues, but connectivity was a problem. This was a relatively robust wireless system connecting me to a single universe artnet node, and I had a lot of trouble with getting connected and staying connected, no matter how loosely or tightly I made settings.

We currently run an X32 rack on stage for audio and our engineer mixes with an iPad wirelessly. No issues over the last few months with that setup, and am already used to the connectivity issues with that. We have an Airport Express sitting in the rack, and I'd probably use it for the Luminaire iPad, as well, and throw an Enttec ODE in the same rack.

That being said, the literature speaks of a lot of easy to obtain and interface connection add-ons for things like midi. I would be wary, with how obtuse I found the rest of the programming on the interface.

I currently use an iRig Midi interface on an iPod touch that runs my overall setlist. It contains a jack for running power as well as MIDI, so it would make the most sense for me to keep MIDI as a wired connection initially and get another iRig MIDI for the Luminair iPad, as well. It uses a 30 pin connector, though, so that means I can only use an IPad 3 for now.

For that kind of setup, I'd look towards something running your software on stage, and then connecting to it via your preferred tablet interface. M-PC and Hog 4 (and GrandMA I believe) have nice OSC interfaces that you can customize to your preferences. I think you have to upgrade to one of their more expensive pro dongles (which gets you the two dmx universes you want) but chamsys also has a pretty robust wireless interface.

I can actually already do that now, but it's too much extra gear (laptops, interfaces, power supplies, etc) - and am having enough issues with where that extra gear needs to be placed on stage.

I'm always leery of any completely wireless control. I've seen wireless fail to often, after the crowd rolls in and everyone's cell phone is searching for wifi and crowding up the frequency.

I agree with that. Of course, I'm currently having enough problems with wired control and too many extra devices and power supplies that can go wrong. I already have an Enttec USB Mk2 interface that I use as a backup as it has memory to store a certain amount of DMX information that I can swap to in a pinch if I lose my automated rig to at least keep a generic scene running. My problem is that I've been swapping to that too often lately. But, it would still work well as a backup in this situation.

Definitely appreciate the input, though. I need all the bad and good info I can get to make a proper decision. If others weigh in with similar experiences, I'll definitely have concerns about using Luminaire.

 

[techieman33]

Luminair has been rock solid for me. Your problem might have been that when you load the app is defaulted to artnet and sACN off, that has been changed now and it defaults to on. I found patching to be fast and easy for LED and conventional fixtures, I've never tired to run a moving light with it though. I've also never done anything with midi though so I don't know how that would work, I've always just used it stand alone with an ethernet node.

 

[BadRad]

Luminair has been rock solid for me. Your problem might have been that when you load the app is defaulted to artnet and sACN off, that has been changed now and it defaults to on. I found patching to be fast and easy for LED and conventional fixtures, I've never tired to run a moving light with it though. I've also never done anything with midi though so I don't know how that would work, I've always just used it stand alone with an ethernet node.

I'm running 15 Blizzard LED fixtures and 2 movers - around 160 channels total. Does that sound within Luminair's range without getting overly cumbersome? I recognize that I probably won't have any automated movement macros for the movers - which is a limitation - but I'm looking for stability and portability above all else.

Regarding my need to set up for individual songs and scenes - should I be able to set up a 'stack' for each song, each with individual scenes I can step through?

Unfortunately, there is no demo so I may not be able to see any of this work until I buy.

 

[techieman33]

I'm running 15 Blizzard LED fixtures and 2 movers - around 160 channels total. Does that sound within Luminair's range without getting overly cumbersome? I recognize that I probably won't have any automated movement macros for the movers - which is a limitation - but I'm looking for stability and portability above all else.

Regarding my need to set up for individual songs and scenes - should I be able to set up a 'stack' for each song, each with individual scenes I can step through?

Unfortunately, there is no demo so I may not be able to see any of this work until I buy.

There aren't any built in shapes, movement macros, or anything like that that I know of. For playback you have "scenes" which is like a submaster, you press the button (that you can label and have a picture for) and it goes into that look in whatever fade time you set for it before hand. You can also build cue stacks for each song, and have many ways of controlling how they used.

Overall it's a pretty powerful little app, and should be able to do everything you need it to do, but with no built in shapes it will probably take some time to get the moving lights programmed initially. If you search for luminair on youtube there are some decent videos that will give you an idea of its capabilites if you watch enough of them, I haven't found one really good video that shows it all.

I agree about the demo, it would be nice if apple would allow it, I know I wouldn't have luminair if I didn't happen to find it on sale for $30 one day.

 

[BadRad]

There aren't any built in shapes, movement macros, or anything like that that I know of. For playback you have "scenes" which is like a submaster, you press the button (that you can label and have a picture for) and it goes into that look in whatever fade time you set for it before hand. You can also build cue stacks for each song, and have many ways of controlling how they used.

Overall it's a pretty powerful little app, and should be able to do everything you need it to do, but with no built in shapes it will probably take some time to get the moving lights programmed initially. If you search for luminair on youtube there are some decent videos that will give you an idea of its capabilites if you watch enough of them, I haven't found one really good video that shows it all.

I agree about the demo, it would be nice if apple would allow it, I know I wouldn't have luminair if I didn't happen to find it on sale for $30 one day.

Appreciate the info. Yeah - I've been through several videos, but it's hard to spot limitations without hands on. If I can get someone to weigh in on the MIDI capabilities, that would help. It looks like most key functions are recordable, which is similar to every other system I've worked with. I will have trigger all major functions for live use via MIDI, so it's important that I know the implementation is there.

The price doesn't throw me off too much, but I don't have an iPad yet, and I wouldn't buy one until I knew if this solution would work. If I had a demo I could throw on my friend's iPad, I could get a better feel - but there obviously isn't one.

 

[RickR]

It's a new and different option but you might look at ETC Nomad on a tablet computer.

1. "Real" computers have a lot more power than tablets.
2. Full Eos AND Cobalt software - very solid, do anything!
   
3. Legendary ETC tech support
4. A half universe and "gadget" is well priced. A big price jump to 3 universes but nothing in between.
5. RFR app for super portable monitor/control option.

 

[BadRad]

Quick follow up after working with Luminair for a couple of weeks -

I have found it to be a reasonable fit for some of the things I need it for. I needed something highly portable and devoid of power supplies and USB cables, and it definitely fits that bill. Put together a small rack with an Airport Express, Enttec ODE, Enttec USB Pro Mk2 (use it for an emergency scene backup) and a wireless transmitter. I simply plug the wireless rack in, start Luminair and I'm up and running in no time.

Luminair seems to work well for live playback (so far). I use MIDI control to trigger scene playback, which is pretty easy to set up inside of the app. Portability and Stability being major goals, it so far has those handled.

For show setup and configuration, I agree with an earlier poster that Luminair can be pretty cumbersome to work with. I didn't find patching fixtures to be a big deal, but setting up scenes can take a while. In some ways, I haven't found this process to be that much different from some of the other programs I've used - but Luminair does have some bugs/behaviors that can slow you down. For example, if you leave auto-save on, you'll notice quite a bit of sluggishness as you work with the UI. The screen will just freeze with no indication of what's going on during these saves. And the larger your show gets, the longer the autosave delays hit you. The first time I turned autosave off, the UI experience was much better, though I eventually hit a point where I forgot to save a reasonable amount of changes - and when I went to save, Luminair crashed - losing all of those updates. Very frustrating. Unfortunately, I feel I have to work with auto-save on and put up with the UI freezing.

Scene management is not handled very well. Once you get past about 50 cues/scenes, things start to feel a bit cumbersome. I'm up to about 360 with my current show and it's definitely hard to work with. Some level of scene grouping would go a long way. Luminair is also missing movement macros and fader automation at the scene level. It does allow you to set up a listing of scenes and run various chase patterns, but I can't put movement into any individual scene.

Synth-Fx has been good at getting back with me on questions, but I'm surprised there's no real support forum, and there's only a few basic FAQ links on the site. I'm also surprised there are no reviews up on the App Store (hasn't this app been out for 3 years?). It would be helpful to trade some info with other users, but not sure where to find them.

All of the faults aside, this is still a great app, depending on your needs. The portability makes it a useful platform for me. I had a friend call me a few days ago, needing a simple setup for a video shoot. I was able to program up a set of scenes in a matter of minutes, then pushed the luminair show to my iPod Touch. I gave him the light rig, the wireless rack and the iPod touch, and with almost no instruction he was able to work the rig for his needs from the Touch. Pretty cool. I like the fact that I can put Luminair on any iOS device I own, giving me decent hardware backup sources.

Definitely won't work well as a live board, but as a fairly easy to use scene stepper, it does the job.

 

[techieman33]

Quick follow up after working with Luminair for a couple of weeks -

I have found it to be a reasonable fit for some of the things I need it for. I needed something highly portable and devoid of power supplies and USB cables, and it definitely fits that bill. Put together a small rack with an Airport Express, Enttec ODE, Enttec USB Pro Mk2 (use it for an emergency scene backup) and a wireless transmitter. I simply plug the wireless rack in, start Luminair and I'm up and running in no time.

Luminair seems to work well for live playback (so far). I use MIDI control to trigger scene playback, which is pretty easy to set up inside of the app. Portability and Stability being major goals, it so far has those handled.

For show setup and configuration, I agree with an earlier poster that Luminair can be pretty cumbersome to work with. I didn't find patching fixtures to be a big deal, but setting up scenes can take a while. In some ways, I haven't found this process to be that much different from some of the other programs I've used - but Luminair does have some bugs/behaviors that can slow you down. For example, if you leave auto-save on, you'll notice quite a bit of sluggishness as you work with the UI. The screen will just freeze with no indication of what's going on during these saves. And the larger your show gets, the longer the autosave delays hit you. The first time I turned autosave off, the UI experience was much better, though I eventually hit a point where I forgot to save a reasonable amount of changes - and when I went to save, Luminair crashed - losing all of those updates. Very frustrating. Unfortunately, I feel I have to work with auto-save on and put up with the UI freezing.

Scene management is not handled very well. Once you get past about 50 cues/scenes, things start to feel a bit cumbersome. I'm up to about 360 with my current show and it's definitely hard to work with. Some level of scene grouping would go a long way. Luminair is also missing movement macros and fader automation at the scene level. It does allow you to set up a listing of scenes and run various chase patterns, but I can't put movement into any individual scene.

Synth-Fx has been good at getting back with me on questions, but I'm surprised there's no real support forum, and there's only a few basic FAQ links on the site. I'm also surprised there are no reviews up on the App Store (hasn't this app been out for 3 years?). It would be helpful to trade some info with other users, but not sure where to find them.

All of the faults aside, this is still a great app, depending on your needs. The portability makes it a useful platform for me. I had a friend call me a few days ago, needing a simple setup for a video shoot. I was able to program up a set of scenes in a matter of minutes, then pushed the luminair show to my iPod Touch. I gave him the light rig, the wireless rack and the iPod touch, and with almost no instruction he was able to work the rig for his needs from the Touch. Pretty cool. I like the fact that I can put Luminair on any iOS device I own, giving me decent hardware backup sources.

Definitely won't work well as a live board, but as a fairly easy to use scene stepper, it does the job.

With the number of scenes your running your probably taking it to the point that it would make sense to run a real console, or PC based solution. For reviews, just go to the reviews section in iTunes, and click all versions. They just don't have any reviews yet for the latest update.

 

[BadRad]

With the number of scenes your running your probably taking it to the point that it would make sense to run a real console, or PC based solution. For reviews, just go to the reviews section in iTunes, and click all versions. They just don't have any reviews yet for the latest update.

I've been running PC based solutions for the past couple of years, and while they do have some key features and control that go beyond Luminair, I also needed something that could be placed at the front of the stage without running power and usb cables. It also needs to be a solution that I can control via footswitch, and allow me to monitor the status of the cues from a moderate distance. The monitoring aspect has been a sore point with every PC based solution I've tried, as all of them assume you have the laptop within arms reach and use fonts that are too small and/or part of an overly busy UI. This is something that Luminair excels at. I can use custom images for each scene - allowing me to color code each for monitoring with a quick glance while I'm performing.

Most of the scenes are building block components, allowing me to use the DMX Merge scene types to build more complex looks in a fairly quick and easy way.

For now, I'll put up with the hiccups Luminair throws at me for building my show if it proves to be stable and responsive during performance - something I haven't had from my PC based solutions, so far. I need a few more shows under my belt to validate that one, but so far, so good.