Lycian Spotlights

[Cmunoz]

What are the pros and cons of the electronic ballast vs the magnetic ballast on the Lycian spot lights. I am getting ready to purchase two new ones for one of my theaters and other than price want to know the difference.

 

[JD]

Same as the are on everything.

Electronic ballasts are smaller, lighter and more efficient. Magnetic ballasts are heavy transformer like things.

When a mag ballast goes bad, changing the cap usually fixes them.

When E ballasts go bad, they usually nuke themselves and have to be sent out for a rebuild.

E ballasts have a more consistent light output via better regulation over a wide range of voltage.

Mag ballasts have fixed taps for specific voltages, and output changes are more noticeable on voltage sags.

Mag ballasts are far more likely to survive a large voltage spike (surge.)

 

[derekleffew]

JD, I liked your previous answer to the same/similar question.

From http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...ic-vs-electronic-ballasts-power-supplies.html :

If the choice was which one would I want to power my heart/lung machine during an operation, I would chose magnetic hands down! Solid state ballasts, like switch-mode power supplies, live their lives 100 milliseconds away from death. Magnetic ballasts usually give you some fair warning they are getting cranky!

But, we are not talking heart/lung machines here, are we?


In a mover, I would chose electronic any day of the week. The voltage can be all over the place, and the little mos-fets just adjust their pulse width to compensate without blinking an eye (or bulb!) And then there is weight.... There is still a transformer core in an electronic ballast, however, it can be very small due to the frequency they run at. (Frequency and transformer core size are inverse proportional.) I'm just not a big fan of pumping iron being mixed with lighting!

Cmunoz, which Lycian spots are you considering, as I didn't know a choice was offered?

 

[Cmunoz]

JD, I liked your previous answer to the same/similar question.

From http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...ic-vs-electronic-ballasts-power-supplies.html :


Cmunoz, which Lycian spots are you considering, as I didn't know a choice was offered?

I am going with the M2 2040-25 medium throw 2500w.

 

[rochem]

I have no comment on magnetic vs. electronic, but for a theatre situation I might look at the Lycian 1275 as an alternative to the M2. The M2s are great spots, but they're designed more to have a flatter field for video and IMAG purposes, where the 1275 has a more peaked field and is usually better suited for theatre. The 1275/1290/1293 range is what you're going to see in many professional theatres (on the east coast at least), while the M2 is more common in the corporate/concert world and when you need to fit spots into a small area. Not that the M2 won't work just as well, it's just something to consider if you haven't already.

 

[shiben]

I have no comment on magnetic vs. electronic, but for a theatre situation I might look at the Lycian 1275 as an alternative to the M2. The M2s are great spots, but they're designed more to have a flatter field for video and IMAG purposes, where the 1275 has a more peaked field and is usually better suited for theatre. The 1275/1290/1293 range is what you're going to see in many professional theatres (on the east coast at least), while the M2 is more common in the corporate/concert world and when you need to fit spots into a small area. Not that the M2 won't work just as well, it's just something to consider if you haven't already.

I doubt this is a HUGE issue, mainly because you can always throw on frost or something... Although it is definitely something to think about. This is why I tend to bite the bullet and use S4 5ºs if I can get my hands on them...

 

[Cmunoz]

I doubt this is a HUGE issue, mainly because you can always throw on frost or something... Although it is definitely something to think about. This is why I tend to bite the bullet and use S4 5ºs if I can get my hands on them...

I do like the 1275's but I was looking for something in the 2k range. What about the 1279 Super star 2.5. Has anyone used this light. I believe it is bigger than the 2040 and uses a different lamp. If the 1275 came in 2k I would take it.

 

[Cmunoz]

I do like the 1275's but I was looking for something in the 2k range. What about the 1279 Super star 2.5. Has anyone used this light. I believe it is bigger than the 2040 and uses a different lamp. If the 1275 came in 2k I would take it.

As far as size is concerned are the 2040's about the same size or bigger than a 1600w Medium throw super trouper. Thats what we have now and it fits our space just fine. Anything much bigger wouldn't be comfortable.

 

[derekleffew]

... a 1600w Medium throw super trouper. Thats what we have now and it fits our space just fine. ...

Then why do you want/need to change? Many would argue that any Lycian is a step down from any Super Trouper. There are several reasonable cost upgrades available for older Xenon Super Troupers, all of which will be less costly than replacing the fixtures.
---

...The M2s are great spots, but they're designed more to have a flatter field for video and IMAG purposes, where the 1275 has a more peaked field and is usually better suited for theatre. ...

I've never heard anything of that sort, but have only used the M2 as a truss spot (the defacto industry standard, save for a few Robert Juliat models). One would think any quality fixture would have the ability to project either peak or cosine distribution, and I'm not sure why one would be better suited for a particular genre. This may be related to one of those "Hit them with a soft-edged head spot every time they open their mouth" styles of Broadway spot design.

 

[Cmunoz]

Then why do you want/need to change? Many would argue that any Lycian is a step down from any Super Trouper. There are several reasonable cost upgrades available for older Xenon Super Troupers, all of which will be less costly than replacing the fixtures.

THe ones we have are really old. I guess we could look into upgrading but I am a big fan of the way a lycian is layed out. All my spot ops like using them way better than a super trouper. I won't get rid of them anyway just move them over to my other theater where the spots are even worse than these.

 

[tristanpants]

THe ones we have are really old. I guess we could look into upgrading but I am a big fan of the way a lycian is layed out. All my spot ops like using them way better than a super trouper. I won't get rid of them anyway just move them over to my other theater where the spots are even worse than these.

I'm a repair tech/spot operator/ld. I would retro fit the troupers as their maintainability is easier and it is better suited to picking up your cues whether you are a novice or expert.

I would choose electronic over magnetic 10/10 times. the legacy ballast always have capacitor issues and any voltage drop that is not within the toleration of your fixtures will cause blackouts.

 

[SteveB]

I hate the look of HMI, always finding that there's a lot of UV that colors the light with a purple'ish tone. Thus if I had a choice between HMI or xenon I'd take xenon any day.

FWIW, if you have the Strong xenon I'm thinking of, it has the color holder stuck on the front of the fixture ?. My operators comment on how much nicer the Lycian's are to operate with the color frame system closer to the operator.

Which is why we purchased the Lycian 1293, 3kw xenons to replace Strong carbon arc Super Troupers. I might have gotten away with 2kw, but too much intensity is always easier to get rid of then not having it to begin with. The Lycians are great machines.

But any reason you are not doing what Derek suggested and re-vamping the Strongs ?. Maybe new reflectors ?.

Or maybe look at the Robert Juliat line ?. They seemingly are getting very popular in the US.

 

[Cmunoz]

I hate the look of HMI, always finding that there's a lot of UV that colors the light with a purple'ish tone. Thus if I had a choice between HMI or xenon I'd take xenon any day.

FWIW, if you have the Strong xenon I'm thinking of, it has the color holder stuck on the front of the fixture ?. My operators comment on how much nicer the Lycian's are to operate with the color frame system closer to the operator.

Which is why we purchased the Lycian 1293, 3kw xenons to replace Strong carbon arc Super Troupers. I might have gotten away with 2kw, but too much intensity is always easier to get rid of then not having it to begin with. The Lycians are great machines.

But any reason you are not doing what Derek suggested and re-vamping the Strongs ?. Maybe new reflectors ?.

Or maybe look at the Robert Juliat line ?. They seemingly are getting very popular in the US.

Yeah they are the super troupers with the color stuck on the front. I run spot with the local union sometimes at other venues and I would much rather use the lycians, way easier to use. We need new spots no matter what. I will probably go ahead and update these for use in another theater. I had heard someone else mention the Robert Juliat line but have never used them before. Thanks everyone for all the input.

 

[ship]

I'm a repair tech/spot operator/ld. I would retro fit the troupers as their maintainability is easier and it is better suited to picking up your cues whether you are a novice or expert.

I would choose electronic over magnetic 10/10 times. the legacy ballast always have capacitor issues and any voltage drop that is not within the toleration of your fixtures will cause blackouts.

Seen all go bad with time and spikes. Capacitors, relay switches, ballasts for re-potting & internal wiring melting down verses electronic issues. 198v threshold for working I would say with any ballast for striking but if at a home location I would expect such troubles are less a problem.

Good question of Xenon verses HMI in choice - really good question - though various lamps out there which have better CRI and or different color temperatures to choose from. Still a good question of HMI verses Xenon at times lamp to lamp in considering.

Advice in all will have to go back to the factory at some point, also buy a spare ballast for what ever line you get or refab. Hopefully collect dust but on-site if a problem as opposed to rushed shipping. Lycian and no doubt others will ship a replacement to make the show work and worry about details later, but having one on hand is cheaper overall. One in the wings means normall all will work as they age or have problems, or be a big factor in troubleshooting.

My own experience - a lot on the Lycian #1290 and over 12 years with them but at times... little to no real problems or ballast failures. But I don't do follow spots mostly other than re-wiring or changing capacitors for #1271 or #1272 ballasts. Such ballasts might be like 20 years old at times in needing re-potting. Got the new RJ 1.8Kw HMI fixture now, never worked with it other than thinking that some knobs would easily be broken in transport. Rarely work with the M-2 other than at times sending back a ballast assembly - but it is a few out of a bulk of them over a few years. Large bulk of them. Also have the Super Trouper II but newer fixtures and no problems so far that I was involved with if any. Same with the Gladiator IV in too new so far to have normal problems with age and touring that at least I'm involved with. Electronics, new fixture or my more conventional fixture department in we don't always talk persay in what comes to my notice or who can easier get the work done say for replacing wiring or a capacitor.

Do know that I would rather take a #1290 than Trouper II for on-site install. #1290 is much easier to bench focus at a location, but if at a static install that ain't as much a factor in tinkering. Glad I don't do a lot of them in that often such an install requires me helping to carry the beast up into a stadium audience. IA' what in me just there to install the lamp? And or elvators in good design?

If not the case of moving a spot around & installing the lamp with each move, no opinion of what I would choose.

 

[porkchop]

I love the 1290 2k's that we have. Troupers feel bulky and poorly balanced in comparison. Like ship mentioned you have better control over the beam with the Lycians. The M2's beam never seems to be as bright as the wattage would suggest but I have a feeling that in my application the throw is longer than the M2's are designed for and that's why. I like Lycian over Super Troupers hands down.

 

[mstaylor]

I love the 1290 2k's that we have. Troupers feel bulky and poorly balanced in comparison. Like ship mentioned you have better control over the beam with the Lycians. The M2's beam never seems to be as bright as the wattage would suggest but I have a feeling that in my application the throw is longer than the M2's are designed for and that's why. I like Lycian over Super Troupers hands down.

I like the look of a Lycian but I absolutely hate to run them. They are the most frustrating things I have ever touched. I have run carbon Troupers, Super Troupers and Gladiators, both carbon and Xenon. I can run them and never look to what I am grabbing. I use a Lycian and I have to think about every move I make.

 

[chausman]

There are several reasonable cost upgrades available for older Xenon Super Troupers, all of which will be less costly than replacing the fixtures.

(Sorry for the off topic)
Where have you seen one of those upgrades? I know some people who have some Xenon Super Troupers, and don't have any lamps left. (I have heard more then one of those lamps "explode"...and still work)

 

[Les]

One more minor hijack. How do you pronounce Lycian? I've always used Lie-see-in, with an emphasis on 'see'. My LD friend called them "Lickin". I wanted to call him out, but I figured I'd better check first!

Or is it Lie-see-ann?

 

[mstaylor]

Ordering new lamps are no problem. Lamps exploding shouldn't be a problem to operating. Putting new lamps in is not for the faint of heart. Because they explode, you don't want just anybody trying to install them. I tell my ops that if they lose a lamp during a show, shu it down and get me. I will not let them install them.

 

[mstaylor]

One more minor hijack. How do you pronounce Lycian? I've always used Lie-see-in, with an emphasis on 'see'. My LD friend called them "Lickin". I wanted to call him out, but I figured I'd better check first!

Or is it Lie-see-ann?

Lie-see-in with the accent on Lie. Or at least that is how I pronounce it and everybody I have done advances with have not questioned it.