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Mac 700 vs. Mac 250

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by DarSax, Dec 4, 2006.

  1. DarSax

    DarSax Active Member

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    Quick question. But before you answer, the title of this thread is kind of misleading.

    I'm not asking which fixture is better; obviously its hard to compare them. I have just a quick question, actually--if I combine Mac 700's and Mac 250's into a rig side-by-side, are the 250's going to look like crap in comparison?

    Throw's about 20ft. Wash light provided by 7 Studio Color 575s. Are the Mac250's not going to be bright enough to be worth a ****, or will they at least be visible enough for aerials with haze?

    I need to plan on downsizing the rig I'm designing (actual design to follow once it's approved), and so I might need to replace a couple of the Mac 700's I'm getting with a cheaper fixture. Another (but more expensive) option is the Studio Spot 575, but if the Mac 250 is going to be at least reasonably bright, it'd save me significantly more money :eek:
     
  2. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Mac 700 often is replacing the Mac 250 in installs and use - or at least to my observation. Given this, and that the Mac 250 is a good fixture, it could be useful for used fixture purchases that are not that bad, just less refined and bright.

    In the end, it's probably a photometrics chart question by way of intensity you ask more so in if the Mac 250 would be useful for your install. In my observation of the reverse of your question of some Mac 700 on an install, the Mac 700 very much seemed like the Mac 250 it replaced, but this lacked much base of comparison. I was not very impressed with the intensity, but this could have been by intent that the beam was not very intense.
     
  3. TechiGoz

    TechiGoz Active Member

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    In some of the shows I have done, I have had a Mac 700 with a Mac 250. At one stage, the organizer questioned me about which was which, although both were doing ariels through haze. I did actually double check on a photometrics chart, but its inevitably up to the design and decision of the install.
     
  4. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    you could always go for the midpoint, the 550.
     
  5. TechiGoz

    TechiGoz Active Member

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    That is a valid point.. I have found that sometimes the 500's and 550's can be slightly more intense than even a 700. I presume it all depends on the optics and photometrics..
     
  6. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    At work we now have the LED version of the Mac 250. Yep, it works but I have never seen it in use.

    LED, it's coming....
     
  7. kovacika

    kovacika Active Member

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  8. TechiGoz

    TechiGoz Active Member

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    Nice video find
     
  9. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    It also depends on WHICH 250 you're talking about. If it's the older Mac 250 or 250+, then probably not. But the entour/Krypton/Wash have much improved optics which would help it keep up with the 700. My guess is that since the 250 E/K/W and the 700 series are all fairly new the optic design will be fairly similar and thus the only noticable difference is the lamp, you will see a difference, but not as dramatic of a difference as if it were the older fixture.

    So that's where programming and design come into play. You wouldn't point all 700 to a spot in open white, and expect the 250 with gobos in dark blue or red to be able to cut through that to the same area. Use the rig for things that it can do well, and you'll get the most out of all of it.

    Also, I overheard something about the 700 recently. Something to do with a filter needing cleaning or removal, and a setting in the menu needing to be changed. If you don't it gives this halo effect which isn't very pleasing. I'll ask again and get the specifics, but there is some optimization involved.
     
  10. JSFox

    JSFox Active Member

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    Dimmers ain't just for theatre. I used them all the time for rock shows (assuming that's what you're doing) with trusses of 1kw PAR's. Yellow's @ 70% match well with Blue's @ 100%. This just makes those full power blast moments all the more fun. Cardena just had a great article in the back of PLSN about dimming lighting to match projected images (great article btw). Don't be afraid to dim the big guys a bit in some cases.
     
  11. TechiGoz

    TechiGoz Active Member

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    JSFox brings a good point. Sometimes nowadays some lighting guys think that they have to have everything at 100% in order for it to look 'good'. I also read that article in Pro Lights and Staging News and its true.. Mixing different tools with different colours and intensities is sometimes the best option to go for, even if some of it is incorporated with projection and only at 70% or less.

    So as JSFox said, and i agree, dont be afraid to dim the big boys in some circumstances. When Len stated, >Use the rig for things that it can do well, and you'll get the most out of all of it.< thats so true. Your rig should only be as complex as the things it is designing. The advantage of using movers, for example, is so you dont need 33 profiles for various specials. Strategically place a profile or two so you can light a good percentage of what you need too with them, whilst still making it look good in your design, using intensity to shift the focus of the audience.

    The newer 250's do indeed have improved optics, so as to keep up with the new levels of movers that Martin is bringing out. Movers are able to be 'dimmed', so why not use them as tools instead of just 'equipment in a rig' to make the overall designing process a mix of conventional and modern.

    I probably went off track and became too philosopical but oh well!
     
  12. DarSax

    DarSax Active Member

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    First off, in case I didn't make this clear--this is about a rental.

    As for the 550, yeah, I'd love to use those--but they aren't available! Which completely stinks (only the older 500's are available, and I figure that isn't worth it.)

    The 250 in question is the Entour, the newest of the 250's. (Besides the funky LED one ship was talking about?).

    I'm not trying to "replace" the 700 with a fixture which I expect to do the same thing. The primary function of the lights in question is aerials, and the reason I have to bring up the question is cost. I'm asking because I've never used a 250w intel light, so I have no idea how it stacks up in comparison with other fixtures. So if the entire rig is at full, I'm basically trying to find out if the 250's are going to look pitiful next to the 700's (they'll be about 10 feet away, on suspended truss) to the point where the audience starts to think "what was the deal with those lights, why were they so dim?"

    To reply to TechiGoz, well yes, using all of your fixtures at 100% all of the time significantly limits your design options, but for some of the most dramatic effects, you really want that profile beam to cut right through your wash light, and I don't want to have to dim my 700's every time I use my 250's.

    Though the not being able to see from the aud. which fixture was which is extremely heartening, must say. Any other experiences? I checked out the video, but had no idea which fixtures were which (which may or may not be a good thing, some seemed to not have as much throw, but the haze was not well distributed)
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2006
  13. JSFox

    JSFox Active Member

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    How do the photometrics of the two compare?
     
  14. DarSax

    DarSax Active Member

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    Unfortunately, I have yet to see a nice, organized, visual photometrics chart come out of Martin for either of the fixtures. I know that the bulb on the 700 is about 16k lumens, while the 250 is 5k lumens. They have candela measurements buried somewhere in the manuals, but I'll need to fish em out
     

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