Manager Falls Into Orchestra Pit
- Thread starterDaveySimps
- Start date
They bought their plane tickets, they knew what they were getting into, I say let'm crash!
I think the only way you could distort my point anymore is if you said I thought "they jews should have known better than to be jewish in germany in the late 30's"
I bet YOU also think if someone hurts them selves while robbing your place they should be able to sue you right?
//that logic works both ways.
I agree with len, a safety rope should be enough...
No no, that's not my point.
I certainly would agree and advocate that one needs to try their utmost to be aware and conscious of their surroundings at all times. It is one of the fundamental rules of working on the stage environment and I would NEVER disagree with that.
HOWEVER I think that it would be good if there was more effort made to increase the awareness of such risks. Even a safety rope or a line of cones helps immensely. That visual indication can sometimes be all thats needed to prevent injury or loss of life.
AWARENESS is key BUT accidents happen and I don't think it would be a bad idea to make some practices more common. We wear harnesses when necessary, and hard hats are becoming more common in our work as well. Safety restraints, such as nets, don't prevent falls, but they sure can make them a lot less worse. Take for instance the SawStop. Yes, awareness and proper technique is key when using any power tool, but how many of us have argued the justification of a SawStop in that it can turn a lost digit into a single stitch or less? At what price point does the personal responsibility vs. risk reduction scale tip?
And for the record, I think it's bull ish that a robber has been injured on a break in, sued the home owner, and won.
I certainly would agree and advocate that one needs to try their utmost to be aware and conscious of their surroundings at all times. It is one of the fundamental rules of working on the stage environment and I would NEVER disagree with that.
HOWEVER I think that it would be good if there was more effort made to increase the awareness of such risks. Even a safety rope or a line of cones helps immensely. That visual indication can sometimes be all thats needed to prevent injury or loss of life.
AWARENESS is key BUT accidents happen and I don't think it would be a bad idea to make some practices more common. We wear harnesses when necessary, and hard hats are becoming more common in our work as well. Safety restraints, such as nets, don't prevent falls, but they sure can make them a lot less worse. Take for instance the SawStop. Yes, awareness and proper technique is key when using any power tool, but how many of us have argued the justification of a SawStop in that it can turn a lost digit into a single stitch or less? At what price point does the personal responsibility vs. risk reduction scale tip?
And for the record, I think it's bull ish that a robber has been injured on a break in, sued the home owner, and won.
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This is what my high school does during our fall musical, however we only have this in place when the audience is not in. When one of the hands comes in in the evening they strike it to a storage room close to the stage. Then, after the show, the first thing that is done (usually before all the musicians are out of the pit) the crew all go to get the cones and tape and put them up. The only difference is ours is usually 2-3 feet from the edge instead of 6.
I know of three theaters with them. All are installed just below the lip of the stage in theaters with removable pit covers. Also all three are on pretty deep pits, close to 8' deep. There is only about an 8"-12" drop from the stage level to the net. As far as spring, the ones I've seen are made from something like a 3/4"-1" diameter cargo net, with about 6" squares. They are not stretched all that tight as they are designed to be easily snapped in and out of position when re-configuring the pit. The sturdy ropes I've seen are not going to give much, I think you would still bounce a bit if you fell in one due to the slack in the net. Thus I don't think you need a lot of clearance below the net. Yeah you would probably still get hurt, but not nearly as bad. They also aren't all that expensive. I helped a school get a net a couple years ago. I think they paid around $4,000 including the labor for installation of a eye bolts into concrete.
Out of curiosity, do you know how those three spaces maintain those nets? Do they have the installer return on a regular basis to inspect the connections? After all, other life safety systems are regularly inspected (if you aren't doing so, you need to do so; I currently have my harness back at the manufacturer for re-certification).
As I said previously, complacensy is often the biggest danger. People end up losing respect for the dangers of their workplace. They start depending on that safety measure to keep them from harm and ignore the primary safety measure of having secure footing (proper distance from the fall hazard).
As I said previously, complacensy is often the biggest danger. People end up losing respect for the dangers of their workplace. They start depending on that safety measure to keep them from harm and ignore the primary safety measure of having secure footing (proper distance from the fall hazard).
If you have some vendors you can recommend at this price, I'd be very interested. Several of us in my area have solicited quotes. We have had several quotes from various vendors around the US. They have been consistently between $10,000 and $14,000 installed. Significantly different than the pricing you mention. None of our installs would be atypical or unique causing additional material or labor.
~Dave
I'll double check. It's been a while it may be my mind has slipped on pricing.
As for inspections I don't think any of those theaters ever have their nets inspected. All are in schools which feel lucky to have a net in the first place. Note: I'm not saying that I don't agree that inspections should happen regularly, they just don't.
As for inspections I don't think any of those theaters ever have their nets inspected. All are in schools which feel lucky to have a net in the first place. Note: I'm not saying that I don't agree that inspections should happen regularly, they just don't.
I learned the hard way, I was distracted by a noise, turned to look back at where it was coming from without stopping and in doing so walked backwards off the stage lip. Luckily it was just a 2' or 3' drop to the concrete at an amphitheater rather than into an open pit and I was fine, but it is easy to be distracted at inopportune moments. Cones and tape probably would not have helped in that situation unless they gave sufficient resistance while still allowing time to stop.
howlingwolf487
Active Member
In the theatre environment, it's common to call out when things are changing or mistakes happen.
"Falling!" = Run away from the immediate area as fast as possible.
"Clear the rail!" = Move from underneath the flyrail because an arbor is being loaded/unloaded.
"Batten coming in/going out!" = Watch you head(s), something big/heavy is moving.
When operating our lift, we always yelled, "Lift moving!" and waited for a couple of "thank you"s, etc. from those on deck before actually moving. Heck, we had to be state-certified to even operate the thing since it was considered an open elevator shaft. Supervision is a must and it should be explicitly stated, in no uncertain terms, that horseplay will NOT be tolerated on stage.
From the article linked to by the OP, it seems that the TD was working on the stage floor and made a movement that got him off-balance enough to cause him to tumble in the direction of and into the pit. I, personally, feel that if I were working that close to the stage lip and the pit was down, I would bring it up - no matter what was already on it. I do concur that if there were some life-safety measure in place, the injuries sustained may have been much less severe.
"Falling!" = Run away from the immediate area as fast as possible.
"Clear the rail!" = Move from underneath the flyrail because an arbor is being loaded/unloaded.
"Batten coming in/going out!" = Watch you head(s), something big/heavy is moving.
When operating our lift, we always yelled, "Lift moving!" and waited for a couple of "thank you"s, etc. from those on deck before actually moving. Heck, we had to be state-certified to even operate the thing since it was considered an open elevator shaft. Supervision is a must and it should be explicitly stated, in no uncertain terms, that horseplay will NOT be tolerated on stage.
From the article linked to by the OP, it seems that the TD was working on the stage floor and made a movement that got him off-balance enough to cause him to tumble in the direction of and into the pit. I, personally, feel that if I were working that close to the stage lip and the pit was down, I would bring it up - no matter what was already on it. I do concur that if there were some life-safety measure in place, the injuries sustained may have been much less severe.
howlingwolf487;252859 I said:
This is not always an option. Many theatres only have an orchestra pit filler, not an elevator / lift like you. Mine takes 3 hours to put back in section by section. This is also the case about the theatre mentioned in the article.
~Dave
howlingwolf487
Active Member
Ah, I see. If that's the case, then I guess maybe a change in working position could have helped…but who knows, really? There is always a chance that something, somewhere can go wrong, and oftentimes it doesn't, or we anticipate and adapt to deal with it.
All the best to those who have been injured in such incidents - I hope that the number continues to grow less and less each year.
I guess the final cost was a little over $7,000. Which I believe included both a horizontal net as well as a smaller one down in the bit vertically to keep musicians from falling off... it's deep pit.
It was done by PNTA here in Seattle. I'm PM'ing you the contact info for the guy to talk to about it.
