Microphones Miking a Flute

[blademaster]

My goodness its been ages since i've been on here and needed to ask a question (which could be good or bad) but CB has always been a beacon of hope for me.

I run sound for a church and we have a flute player in a back corner (no hope of moving, might change in a few months with a new building) but i'm trying to mic him so he sounds decent and better gain before feedback. the mic is a wired headworn mic. its a Audio Technica PRO8HE ( i'll have to look after they finish rehersal ). I get ok sound from it, a lot of ambiance but during solos its just not cutting it. Any ideas?

 

[Footer]

How are you even using that for this? Those mics have a ton of rear rejection and anything off axis you are just going to completely lose.

Do you have the option of going wired? Do you have any type of mic inventory? Any SM57s or 58s? A 57 on a stand can work well for a flute.

 

[blademaster]

he wears the mic around his neck with the mic right next to the flute.
i'm worried about the musician bumping into the mic on a stand. we've got a couple sm58 and sens e835 ( i think the model is right). i'll have a look at using it in a few wks when he plays again. keep the ideas coming

 

[DuckJordan]

Personaly I'd use the senheiser it has a much flatter response than the shure which is good in thus case because you aren't mixing voxals.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[sdauditorium]

he wears the mic around his neck with the mic right next to the flute.
i'm worried about the musician bumping into the mic on a stand. we've got a couple sm58 and sens e835 ( i think the model is right). i'll have a look at using it in a few wks when he plays again. keep the ideas coming

I'd definitely try using the Senny on a stand. Any musician worth their salt (or flute in this case) should be able to stand in close proximity to a mic without bumping into it. That's what rehearsals are for.

 

[derekleffew]

From DPA Microphones :: How to mic a flute - two common close-miking techniques :

2. Due to its polar character the flute can also be miked behind and slightly above the head of the player, pointing at the finger holes. In fact in an overdub situation a myriad of places around the head yield very good balance.

So maybe have the flute player wear the headset mic backwards or something?
Or, handheld mic on a tall stand US and SR of player's head.

 

[sdauditorium]

From DPA Microphones :: How to mic a flute - two common close-miking techniques :


So maybe have the flute player wear the headset mic backwards or something?
Or, handheld mic on a tall stand US and SR of player's head.

This is actually what we did for a Miss Door County Pageant this past February with a flute player. Tried a number of different setups and ended up with a handheld on a mic stand in the position you described. Not ideal sound quality, but it was workable that didn't distract from the talent (or lack thereof) itself.

Check out the Audix ADX10-FL. I've heard good things about it and will likely pick one up the next time we need to mic a flutist.

Audix ADX10 FL Flute mic, cardioid, Includes and mounting clip | Full Compass

 

[blademaster]

This is actually what we did for a Miss Door County Pageant this past February with a flute player. Tried a number of different setups and ended up with a handheld on a mic stand in the position you described. Not ideal sound quality, but it was workable that didn't distract from the talent (or lack thereof) itself.

Check out the Audix ADX10-FL. I've heard good things about it and will likely pick one up the next time we need to mic a flutist.

Audix ADX10 FL Flute mic, cardioid, Includes and mounting clip | Full Compass

That Audix looks sweet but if any one has worked with a church before, budget is a relative and fickle term. the sound budget generally is either from specific donations that people have specified towards Sound or equipment people have donated.

I will see about trying the sen in front of him and try behind him.

 

[bishopthomas]

If you can't get a decent sound from an SM58 on a stand then it's not going to happen.

 

[DuckJordan]

If you can't get a decent sound from an SM58 on a stand then it's not going to happen.

what may sound decent to you is entirely different than my level of decent. If the OP has a sennheiser E835 the OP, should use the e835, the SM58's are great for vocals but are extremely lacking for instruments. This is due to the microphone being tuned for voice and not instruments.

 

[sdauditorium]

what may sound decent to you is entirely different than my level of decent. If the OP has a sennheiser E835 the OP, should use the e835, the SM58's are great for vocals but are extremely lacking for instruments. This is due to the microphone being tuned for voice and not instruments.

For whatever reason, I am not a fan of the SM58s. Yeah, they're rugged and been a staple forever (for good reason I'm sure), but to me, you have to EQ the heck out of them to get them to sound good.

 

[AYT93]

I recently had to mic a flute for a production. I used an SM58 on a mic stand, sounded fine. Just make sure you place it directly infront of the musicians mouth.

 

[bishopthomas]

what may sound decent to you is entirely different than my level of decent. If the OP has a sennheiser E835 the OP, should use the e835, the SM58's are great for vocals but are extremely lacking for instruments. This is due to the microphone being tuned for voice and not instruments.

I think you missed my point and instead decided to insult me. SM58's are not "tuned for voice." The amount of ignorance in these forums is astounding. You could keep your uneducated comments to yourself instead of spreading misinformation, otherwise reader beware.

 

[Chris15]

Let's keep this civilised now...
Just because a 58 has its dominant use in vocal reinforcement does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that's all it is good for. If that were true then Your president would not use a pair of 57s, obstensibly an instrument mic, for specch...

Consider that the capsule in a 58 is the same as the capsule in a 57. There is some difference in frequency response caused by the different form factors and grill / windsocking arrangements. All in all though, they are both reasonably flat response mics.

Yes there might be more appropriate mics out there for certain applications, but I think bishopthomas has a point in that you should be able to get a reasonable sound out of pretty well any mic if you know what you are doing...

 

[Hughesie]

When it comes down to it. You use the best you have available at your disposal. You cannot argue that a 58 OR a Beta 58 would be a lot better than a "professional microphone" you would get from a company like Behringer.

The wonderful thing about Controlbooth is that it is a teaching environment and everyone comes to with different levels of skill and different aspects they may have picked up which might be wrong or right depending on your point of view.

 

[itie]

Ive ran shows where the flute player wanted me to clip a lapel mic to his flute. I'm not sure if its good for the mic the but I got a really good signal from the flute.

 

[Chris Chapman]

I've had WONDERFUL results using a Countryman E6. Sounds great and plenty of headroom. (no pun intended.)

 

[Jsamuels201]

Consider that the capsule in a 58 is the same as the capsule in a 57. There is some difference in frequency response caused by the different form factors and grill / windsocking arrangements. All in all though, they are both reasonably flat response mics.

The above is 100% true and to argue that a 58 is "tuned for vocals" is totally unreasonable seeing as how the 57 is essentially the same mic and used for every instrument under the sun. I agree that 57's and 58's are a little midrangey but they EQ well and can work for almost anything.

I will say that my theatre has a pair of sm81's that I like to use for woodwinds, strings, and any acoustic instruments because they're a little tighter than a 57/58 and have a flatter response (I also like the sound of condensers on more dynamic instrumnts such as a woodwind or stringed instrument but that's just personal preference), but unless you have $350 to drop on a mic an sm57 will do just fine as long as you know what your doing.

I'd personally avoid using a headworn mic such as a Countryman e6 just because the mics like that MUST be put in the exact right spot and the idea of clipping a mic to a flute just seems more effort than its worth when u can get a good sound out of one on a stand.

 

[DuckJordan]

I'm sorry, if you took offense to my post bishop, it wasn't my intention, But given the two mics the less EQing you have to do on the mic the better and I feel that the Senheisser in this situation is definitely the better option, Sorry if you feel that the shure microphone isn't tuned for vocals but this was told to me by a Shure rep. So instead of making snide comments about someones intelligence (something I did not do at any point in my post). Why not choose to counter my post with a civilized retort.

I'm starting to see where this forum is going where the people who "own" their own business seem to have the attitude of "since I spend a ton of money on gear, and I deal in this, this, and this, I am the person who knows everything. If thats how the CB staff would like to keep this forum it has no place for educational space.

Just because someone is a student and may not have as much experience doesn't make their posts any less valid than someone who has had 20+ years in the business. I have both the senheisser E835 and a SM58, The vocals sound much more deep in the shure than the E835 and when freq measured out of the same source, same cable, same mixer, and same speaker, the E835 produced a flatter response. And when it comes to instrument reproduction, in most cases, you would want the cleanest purest sound.

Sorry, if this pisses people off but, I'm tired of seeing students and volunteers get bashed on this forum for "not knowing" certain things.

 

[gafftaper]

I've been running sound since 5th grade... that's 30 years ago. I don't know it all. I don't claim to know it all. I defer to people with more experience than me. People who I believe are pros. How do they get to be pros? Years of experience, knowledge, and proven expertise. Just because I can read a manual and understand it doesn't make me an expert or a pro. Also being a pro is about how you carry yourself and portray yourself. Pros can work with anyone and get the job done, regardless of how they feel about the person next to them. Pros know when to walk in the room and kick the big dog and when to sit in the corner and be quiet.

People who act like know-it-alls are a whole other breed. They also don't get much work. Theater's a small world and a bad place to be a 20 year old who thinks he knows everything without any respect for another technician's proven experience. Word get's out about their attitude and travels around fast. It's not about bashing anyone. I'm CB's strongest supporter of young technicians. It's about respecting people who have accumulated years of experience and wisdom. Wait 20 years and think back on this post. You'll know what we are talking about.

EDIT: The question has been answered and a flame war followed. No good is going to come from leaving this thread open. Closed.