Motorized Fly System

A

AxlD

Member
So this has been a topic of Discussion between me and a few people i work with after having some injury with our Fly System
So my question for you guys

Would you ever use a Motorized Fly System in your Theater Space if so would you take any more precautions or would you loosen them up

If not Why wouldn't you use it?

(P.S If this is in the wrong section please move the topic to where it needs to go)
 
We have a double purchase system and we were adding 6 MAC 250's (which weigh about 65 lbs Each) to a Line Set. and how we load out lineset is we will Fly it in. Add 2 of our lights to it. Fly it out and add the weight. and then Fly it in add 2 more and so on. On the last time flying it out to add weight one of our Technicians hands got stuck in the rigging and cut his hand pretty badly. The reason i am making this about Motorized Fly System is because after that we talked about how Motorized Fly System could have prevented injuries. And no we do not Fly actors we only fly in Line Sets with Either Curtains, Backdrops. Or Lights on them
 
I'd add a loading bridge - much less expensive than motorizing.

Counter weight can be very safe is all is kept in balance. I think your question has many facets. Suddenly a finger push can move thousands of pounds with no immediate and real feed back, but its never out of balance. Not simple.
 
Are you saying that you are loading as such to account for cable weight? Just making sure I am not misunderstanding you.

Be thankful that a cut hand is the worst injury you had, then. Loading from the deck is a necessity in some venues due to a lack of proper infrastructure, but to not use the loading bridge that you have is just inviting danger. At least, you should get close to the proper weight from the loading bridge and then tweak the weight from the deck.
 
This is actually the 3rd accident that we've had in under a year. 3 of them were both cuts on the hand. And the 3rd was Rope Burned hands. The reason that we do our loading from the Deck is that's where all of our Emergency Safety things are incase something happens. And it is always a 2 person job no matter how much weight we are adding
 
You don't need a motorized rigging system. What you need is proper training on the one you got now. With a loading bridge there is no reason to ever move an out of weight batten unless you are flying a large hard piece. Even then bull lines can be used to counteract those forces. You need to take a big step back and look at your entire operation.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
Would I? Yes. Would I trust it to someone who was not a good flyman? No. Truss and motor rigging had been used for decades and is very safe.... In the right hands. Motorized rigging is also safe in the right hands. Counterweight rigging is also safe in the right hands. All can cause catastrophic injures if used incorrectly.

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I don't understand why with a loading bridge you ever permit unbalanced linesets but will leave that.

I tend to lean toward motorizing fixed electrics and the orchestra shell in high schools, since at least the electrics are the sets most commonly out of balance resulting in crashes. But those are slow dumb machines. If using rigging for set changes and in audience view as I would expect on a stage, high speed motorized and all the controls get very expensive. To do what is easily done with a manual counterweight linsey, a motorized lineset is probably 7 to 8 times the initial cost and will require much more service and earlier replacement so over 50 or so year lifetime probably on the order of 20+ times the cost.

So no simple answers beyond a lot of us are concerned for your safety because of how you are operating your existing manual system.
 
AxlD said:
We have a double purchase system and we were adding 6 MAC 250's (which weigh about 65 lbs Each) to a Line Set. and how we load out lineset is we will Fly it in. Add 2 of our lights to it. Fly it out and add the weight. and then Fly it in add 2 more and so on. On the last time flying it out to add weight one of our Technicians hands got stuck in the rigging and cut his hand pretty badly.
Click to expand...

What rigging did he get his hand caught in? the light clamps, the connection from the lift lines to the baton, something on the rail? I don't get how a motorized system will stop people from putting their hands where it shouldn't be.
 
AxlD said:
We have a double purchase system
Click to expand...

A double purchase system has a number of things to consider but one of the big things is that your counterweight load is doubled.
so a 65 lbs fixture needs 130 lbs of counterweight. The real problem comes when you are removing fixtures from the electric.Take just one fixture off the arbor is suddenly 130 pounds out of weight and at the top of its travel, without anyone on the load plate to unload it. Extremely unsafe to say the least.

The system can be safely operated but training is needed. Keep your brothers safe, get some additional training.
 
AxlD said:
... we were adding 6 MAC 250's (which weigh about 65 lbs Each) ...
Click to expand...
Just curious, what version of MAC250 do you have that weighs "about 65 lbs."? My specs say 46-49 lbs.
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A double-purchase system without a loading gallery is a double-insult! @What Rigger? and I worked in one theatre where we had to use a scissor lift to load/unload weight. Bringing the arbor to the deck was impossible, as the electrics could not fly all the way out--something to do with the cable management system. PITA. Theatre was eventually demolished after a life of only 18 years.
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I've long felt that all permanent electrics should be motorized, particularly in houses that are rehung regularly. Somewhere on here is @SteveB's account of the process.
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See this post and most of the thread.
 
Just to see if we are all understanding the situation, there is a loafing gallery they choose not to use preferring loading from the floor and hand injuries are rope burns from out of balance sets.
 
He said only one was rope burn, the other 2 were physical cuts to the hand from getting stuck in the rigging?


Via tapatalk
 
We motorized 7 of our electric and ladder positions about 6 years ago.

The 5 primary electrics are Clancy Power-Assist motorized counterweight arbors, the side ladder winches are line shaft. The PowerAssist is a replacement arbor holding 1000 lbs of counterweight, the motor at the bottom uses chain and aircraft cable as the purchase line and allows up to 2000 lbs to be loaded with no need to weight/un-weight the arbor. I believe the advantage to Power Assist is the pipe/electric doesn't need to shift to accommodate the hardware of a line shaft system.

Best rigging investment ever made. They are easier to move, it's just a button push now. As well we can readily accommodate a touring system that just hangs on our pipe (we strip the plot). We have also stripped and used to lift an LCD wall. That saved a ton of time over rigging chain hoists and a truss.

I would go power completely if we had the money. The Met Opera is as BTW, replacing their current rigging system with a new motorized system, $15 million total for that part of the current renovation.


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Honestly, the issue isn't motorized vs counterweight. Its the blatant misuse of the system. Changing what is on a line set should take at least 2 people period. If you have a loading bridge but don't use it then you should not use the fly system. THERE IS NO REASON TO BRING AN OUT OF WEIGHT LINE SET TO A POSITION WHERE A RUNAWAY COULD OCCUR. I've personally never seen a run away and if I can help it I will never see one. Quit cutting corners, (this will help with reducing injuries) and learn to use it correctly or not at all. I'm assuming this is a high school or community theater because no professional venue would ever suggest that replacing a counterweight line set with motorized as opposed to training staff to use the tools correctly. Cost of one could easily add up to several million (Motorized) vs training which would cost a grand total of 5-10 grand... the numbers just make sense.

About the emergency procedures should something occur, Really what could go wrong up on the loading bridge rather than on the ground that someone wouldn't have time to either A get up to them, or B they come down? How much more risk are you adding (obviously more injuries) by the method you are currently using?

Risk assessment tells me that its just asinine to not use the tool made for the job.
 
AxlD said:
We have a loading bridge. but we perfer to do our counter weight when the line set is flown all the way out in the fly system so that the entire line is balanced all the way down to where we fly it is
Click to expand...

I don't think were getting something an am trying to give axl a chance. Clearly if the batten is out, the line is not balanced all the way down. Some terminological issues I'm struggling with.
 
All of our battens are motorized and we love them, It makes loading and unloading things a lot easier. By far this is that safest way to do it. The motors and battens have load sensing on them meaning if load sensing is on (which it always should be) and it detects and extra weight to what the batten has learned it automatically stops. The one bad thing about them is they do not go as fast as counterweight systems, you can control the speed, but compared to a skilled stagehand its nothing!
 
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