New projector system

[DuckJordan]

Ok this is going to be used as a suggestion tool to my director who is also the dept head. Our projector system right now consists of just a standard school room projector, generally the cheapest system possible, sitting on a "custom" built stand in front of the balcony seating. this projects the image about 75' to 100'. the computer that runs this is either a standard laptop which for our school district is an old HP that students can check out at anytime from the library, or the teachers own laptop. right now we only really use it during talent show and high school band concerts. mostly because of the horrible quality this produces. the screen is an old white drop curtain that spans about 25' centered on the 75' procenium opening. unfortunatly because of the projector we use the image gets cut off on the sides and top by about 2 foot from the distance on all sides... the booth is directly under the projector "stand" and i was wondering , on an public school district of about 8,000 students budget, how expensive and what kind of projector, cable, and PC should be used to do this. all of this would be coming out of a most likely HP computer running XP Pro on it since the school bought more than they could actually use. I would prefer to run it from the booth since our stage management consists of a student who has no idea what she is doing nor does what a stage manager actually does.

 

[museav]

A major factor I find in many school auditorium applications is whether the expectation is for everyone in the auditorium to have good viewing or if in most uses the viewing area can be some more limited area. For example, would you have a PowerPoint presentation and expect everyone in the balcony to be able to read what is on the screen? Or would that type of use typically be related to a smaller audience area? That can sometimes make a big difference in the image size required, which in turn drives the projector and lens. Other aspects such as how much ambient light might be hitting the screen and how well you can control that are also factors. The more of these factors that can be defined, the more basis for any decisions.

Thee are also two other considerations. One is the potential sources in general. If you purchase a projector, screen, etc., then might you also want to accommodate inputs other than a PC or laptop? Might you also want connectivity at the stage? The other is addressing where computer are heading in terms of video. Widescreen formats are becoming more common fr laptops and in general, so do you plan on a widescreen format projection system or will everything stay 4:3 format (800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200, etc.) such that a 4:3 format projector will remain viable? Also, computer and especially laptops are moving away from analog video outputs and toward digital video with DVI, HDMI or DisplayPort connectivity. Could this be a consideration for you in having a projection system that could support such formats?

These are all decisions that affect the devices and associated cost. A widescreen projector with digital inputs from the stage and booth sized to support every seat for any presentation is going to cost more than a 4:3 projector with a PC input at the booth predicated on serving a smaller viewing area for some types of presentations. So maybe some things to think about and to help refine your expectations.

 

[NickVon]

Your biggest think i think to consider before what the above poster suggested. Is lumen's and Throw.

I have a 3400 lumen Panasonic projector that throws about 60 feet to a 15foot wide screen.

With house lights off i feel there is still a little to much ambient light for the image and am looking at a 4000lumen projector. that said if you are really throwing 100feet (and keeping your angle distance increase into account) Your challenge is going to be finding a cost effective unit that has the option for a long throw lens. (these can usually run from 1300 to as muc has 2500 dollars depending on the projector and manufacture. with the projector running from 3000 on up. Bottom line is a standard "classroom" or personal level projector, is never going to get you the results you want from a long throw commercial model.

Various input formats for any 2000 dollar'ish projector will have a wide variety of plugs and display features/ratios that i think it's a mute point and should only be used to compare between projectors that meet your requirements i consider important above.

 

[SHARYNF]

As others have said, it will be a trade off and budget decision.
if it is only possible to keep the projector mounted where the stand is now, then your options are going to be to move to a professional large venue unit with the proper lens and you are looking at an expensive unit. If on the other hand you can move the projector closer to the screen reduce the size of the image your options to use a more business level projector will be possible. Without knowing your set up it is hard to determine. I have seen projectors successfully mounted from pipe battons or the cat walk in order to get the throw distance and the image size down to a more workable level. IMO running the cabling to the projector vs the higher end large venue units in your current location will be an evaluation you will need to make.

It is worth considering that the percieved increase in brightness is not a linear relationship to the lumen output of the projector, so going from a 2000 lumen to a 4 thousand lumen projector is not going to double your percieved brightness. Screen material gaim can be a significant factor also.
I would suggest that you take the current projector and the pc and move the projector closer to the screen until you have an balance between size and image quality and see what is possible. If you are going to use the image for text that must be readable with an acceptable font size from the last seat, then you need to factor this into the size of the image.

In general with the long throw projectors with a specific lens you are in the 10 thousand dollar range at the low end 4000 lumens and the 100 thousand dollar range 12000 lumens on the upper end, as just a rough guide

Sharyn

 

[DuckJordan]

i will take pictures tomorrow of our auditorium it should help you under stand why we have to keep the projector in the same place. Also i have got to say i would hate to have a control from the stage as if the other teachers and staff couldn't destroy another thing. the main reason everything is controlled by the booth is we did have the option at one point to control from the stage and all of the plugs were destroyed by both band and orchisra concert people. we also had the problem of our main cluster almost being blown because of some people on stage turning the volume way up on the amps. this would mean they would have easy access to our equipment. last and not least our ambient light is actually quite nice as a commercial small buisness level projector had enough lumens to be read easily from anywhere in the house. the only problem with this is that we had no control of size of the image with the projector itself, it was on the smallest setting and focused as much as possible.

 

[museav]

I was actually thinking more along the lines of possibly providing an input at the stage so someone could connect their laptop there and control their presentation themselves rather than having to leave their laptop up in the booth and keep signaling for the next slide.

I seriously doubt that a small business projector could provide enough output for a 25' wide image, even with cinema type ambient light levels that would take around 8,000 lumens for a 4:3 (25'x18.75') image. If you ever used the projector for a situation where you had to have general light for reading or note taking, probably at least double that for the projector output. If you are getting acceptable brightness from a small business level projector then that tells me that either you can get by with a much smaller image or that what you find acceptable for image brightness is well below industry standards (nothing wrong with that, just an observation).

Another factor to consider in projector location can be noise. I was recently looking at a projector for a concert hall application and since the projector would be used during performances, the noise level it produced a factor in determining where it could go. That can be a consideration for projectors sitting out in an audience area or for operators if it is in the booth (as can the heat generated). Also, keep in mind that the screen material has an effect on image brightness, viewing angles, etc. Simply going to a dedicated screen with the right surface might provide an improvement in image brightness and quality.

Another thought, if the projection screen can be down downstage then you might want to see if rear projection is an option, there could be several benefits.

 

[DuckJordan]

i understand your view point as far as for lights and a person on stage but our theater likes our things nice if we have a speaker coming for presentation things they bring there own projector. or the office provides a cart projector this is much easier and more effective than to use the balcony level for projecting. as far as having lights on during a projected show there is little to no light ever on if we would be using the projector again this is not for presentations this is for show effects and or slide shows for talent show. and as far as that goes there should be no reason they need to project the image that large as our theater with the balcony only seats 900 people.

 

[museav]

Having worked on many theater and auditorium projects, here's some 'outside' perspective.

as far as having lights on during a projected show there is little to no light ever on if we would be using the projector again this is not for presentations this is for show effects and or slide shows for talent show.

right now we only really use it during talent show and high school band concerts. mostly because of the horrible quality this produces.

You original comments made it sound like the current use was limited due to the image quality. If the the goal of this effort is improving the image quality then is that the only way the projector would ever be used? Are you limiting yourself to how you have used it rather than thinking of how it could be used? This also relates to...

...i was wondering , on an public school district of about 8,000 students budget, how expensive and what kind of projector, cable, and PC should be used to do this.

...but our theater likes our things nice if we have a speaker coming for presentation things they bring there own projector.

Any investment, much less the amount, is typically easier to justify if there is broader potential use. At least in my experience, the more you limit the potential use and benefit, the harder it is to justify the investment. Can the school district justify investing in an installed projector for the space with that then not being able to be used for functions like a speaker's presentation, for which they would have to bring in a different projector? If so, you would probably be the first school I have encountered that could do so.

and as far as that goes there should be no reason they need to project the image that large as our theater with the balcony only seats 900 people.

Our projector system right now consists of just a standard school room projector, generally the cheapest system possible, sitting on a "custom" built stand in front of the balcony seating. this projects the image about 75' to 100'.

The seating capacity is irrelevant, it is the physical viewing distances, viewing angles, etc. that matter. If the 75'-100' is at the front of the balcony, I would guess the back of the balcony, which would be the furthest viewer, is then maybe 100'-125' from the screen and that is the factor, along with the image content which has not been identified, that matters most in assessing screen size, not the seating capacity.


Based on past experience, this sounds like a situation where you may have to present a very strong case for a rather limited use or, more likely, think about the situation as the decision makers likely will in the context of the cost and benefit relative to the school and school district as a whole. At least in my experience, by focusing on one user's specific needs and excluding other possible users you limit the potential benefit to the school. Planning a system with a broader potential application than just band concerts and talent shows may significantly help in the school district justifying any investment. If you do want to push forward with this as a limited application you may have to present a stronger argument than that is how you like it.

 

[DuckJordan]

i see your point, its not that i wouldn't allow them to do so but most of the presentations we get bring there own equipment not out of request of the school district just policies held by the companies and or schools presenting.