Non-dim setting good enough for movers?

[DuckJordan]

A Google image search will return all manner of pictures and articles that explain SSR/SCR/Triac behaviour and what happens around the zero crossing. This article is pretty good. The section titled Solid State Relay Output Waveform covers some of the issues. It doesn't cover the impacts of an inductor in the circuit.

Frankly, your bidding committee likely isn't qualified to make a decision about whether to use a relay or a dimmer. The simple answer is "because the manufacturer requires it". The committee could hire a professional engineer to make such a determination but that would cost more than the relays and give the fixture manufacturers a good reason to void the warranty.

As much as I'd love to say that the "committee (one gentlemen in charge off city assets)" would hire a professional engineer to explain a better solution. Its doubtful we will be able to convince him that adding on a $3-$4k consultant fee is going to fly over well. I'll read over that article and see if I can't get a good solid basis as to why using our D20 modules @F is not a good idea for either our vipers or the planned LED upgrade for our halls.

 

[JohnD]

@DuckJordan Perhaps you MAY want to learn to spell write.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

Ahem! With all my respect for Mr. Hebbard, I must make a comment here. Considering the situation, perhaps RIGHT is correct since the issue involves trying to RIGHT A WRONG.
That out of the way, point out that using dimmers can shorten the life and void the warranty for those spendy fixtures.

 

[Chris Pflieger]

Voltage waveforms are going to look really, really, close. But, that's only part of the picture; which ignores current and how your exact dimmers react to varying incoming voltage. Plus, the waveforms you see are probably open circuit, not loaded with intended device.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I think the bidding committee should decide to not buy relays. More sales for the manufacturers after they destroy a few fixtures. I'm never sympathetic to non-experts who have to have proved to them what many experts say. Now if you hired me, I could not say that and definitely would not, because its just wrong headed - but this being the internet - please - put them on dimmers. See if they'll dim or the movers will move more slowly and let us know how it works out for the bidding committee.

 

[spenserh]

https://www.etcconnect.com/Support/...and-Moving-Lights-Powered-by-ETC-Dimmers.aspx

We've used D20s in 'Always On' mode to power Mac 101, Mac 350 and various LED pars, all the way up to a Christie D12HD with no failures. YMMV

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

There you go. If all your gear is ETC, you're OK (if no one screws up a CEM setting or plugging). If not, anecdotal evidence it's OK anyways. Versus anecdotal evidence it isn't. Hmmmmm......

 

[spenserh]

FWIW, if you already have a sensor rack, the CC-20 modules can be found fairly inexpensively on the used market. We have stuck with the D20s because we like to have the option of putting them in switched mode from time to time.

 

[josh88]

We're a roadhouse where we've got Altman Phoenix's (among other leds, but those are the oldest) on d20's with the channel just parked at full. Its not what I would do, but they've been doing that for years with heavy use and have never had issues with running any led like that or any signs of shortening lifespans. Hooray more ancedotal evidence

 

[TimMc]

My advice is free and worth every cent you paid for it. NO CASH REFUNDS, store credit only...

Maybe newer LED drivers and fixture PSUs are more forgiving than in the past, and it's a pretty good bet that ETC makes very sure all their stuff works and plays together... but less than 10 years ago if you ran an LED fixture on a parked dimmer there was a 50/50 chance of very premature demise... like the boss asking why it no workie when LEDs were supposed to last 50,000 hours. The silicon might but the PSUs didn't... Our Martin movers of various model lines would perform unpredictably when on parked power, and I suspect these are related to how the fixture PSU deals with the zero crossing under load.

 

[josh88]

I'm staying out of it because it the boss that thinks it doesnt make a difference and would just sent it out to get fixed or buy a new one if something did happen so I'm just waiting to see, but the phoenixes (and elation cuepixes that we use for the cyc and work lights) have been working since purchase a few years ago, clocking around 20 hours a week, 11 months a year. I'll be curious for sure because I still kind of cringe a little.

 

[spenserh]

My advice is free and worth every cent you paid for it. NO CASH REFUNDS, store credit only...

Maybe newer LED drivers and fixture PSUs are more forgiving than in the past, and it's a pretty good bet that ETC makes very sure all their stuff works and plays together... but less than 10 years ago if you ran an LED fixture on a parked dimmer there was a 50/50 chance of very premature demise... like the boss asking why it no workie when LEDs were supposed to last 50,000 hours. The silicon might but the PSUs didn't... Our Martin movers of various model lines would perform unpredictably when on parked power, and I suspect these are related to how the fixture PSU deals with the zero crossing under load.

What kind of dimmers are we talking though? A D20 set to 'always on' is not the same as a D20 - or most other dimmers - parked at 100%.

 

[Chris Pflieger]

I have a confession...

I hung two Chauvet DJ fixtures and just set the dimmer to "non-dim".


Whew. I feel better that I got that off my chest.



I was also going to hardwire the DMX, but at that location there's a five pin male connector. Just another thing that was screwed up by the "professional" installers.

 

[RonHebbard]

I have a confession...

I hung two Chauvet DJ fixtures and just set the dimmer to "non-dim".


Whew. I feel better that I got that off my chest.



I was also going to hardwire the DMX, but at that location there's a five pin male connector. Just another thing that was screwed up by the "professional" installers.

Father Dave ( @GreyWyvern ) Can you possibly suggest suitable penance and forgive brother @Chris Pflieger ???
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[GreyWyvern]

Father Dave ( @GreyWyvern ) Can you possibly suggest suitable penance and forgive brother @Chris Pflieger ???
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

His penance will be having to fix or replace the fixtures should something go wrong with them.

I actually thought of a pretty good analogy the other day. The AC you give your fixture is like the water you drink. If you are drinking clean water, you won't have any problems, but if you are drinking contaminated water, you will likely have issues.

 

[Chris Pflieger]

I just need them for the Xmas musical...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Jay Ashworth]

We need to find everyone who calls something without a copper-contact relay a "relay modue" and tell them to stop LYING, how'bou dat?

 

[RonHebbard]

We need to find everyone who calls something without a copper-contact relay a "relay module" and tell them to stop LYING, how'bou dat?

@Jay Ashworth Couldn't we just rip out their tongues and chop off the fingers? I suspect I could settle for this without going too far overboard.