Osram's "special" labeling... and a bad box of lamps

[Namlit]

I recently got scammed when I ordered a case of Osram/Sylvania HPL 575 lamps marked "Special". I had never encountered lamps labeled "special" before, so before I bought the lamps I searched for the term here on CB, but came up without any meaningful hits. I ended up ordering the lamps, and learned pretty quickly that "Special" means "sub-standard quality".

The lamps themselves are packaged, labeled and cased just like regular Osram/Sylvania lamps, with the exception of the word "Special" printed on the label. The entire case tested positive for continuity. Visually, they looked identical to regular lamps at first glance. Careful inspection revealed minor flaws: some lamps on the envelope, some on the base, some not at all. The true test was burning the lamp in a light. Of my dozen lamps, four burned-out immediately (within 3 minutes) of being powered. I've lost three more since installing them, approximately 20 hours of burn-time ago. The remainder seem to be perfectly fine (for now). Color temperature seems normal as well.

Needless to say, several vendors (including mine) have no idea what "special" means. Others are simply not disclosing the fact...I sent back a second case of "Special" HPLs I got from a different vendor. Right now on ebay, there are several listings for "Special" HPL lamps for auction. Since I started paying attention to this, I've noticed "Special" HPL's in 575 and 750 wattages, and in long-life (HPLX) and regular flavors. All of them have been Osram/Sylvania, a brand with which I have always been comfortable...until now.

Aside from warning others to beware of the "Special" HPLs, I'm curious if anyone knows how Sylvania defines their "Special" product, and why they don't use a more honest term on their labeling, like "2nd quality", or something? One would think they wouldn't want an inferior product like this besmirching their reputation for quality, or alienating long-time customers like me.

Remember... Osram Sylvania "Special" lamps, ain't so much.

 

[BanditRO]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

eBay is not your friend when it comes to lamps for our industry. Sure, you may find an oddball, difficult to locate lamp there, but the seller may not even know what they have or the intended application.

Bulbtronics offers a very effective lamp search and will not, under any circumstances, sell "grey market" lamps, which very well may be what you purchased. The lamps you purchased may be "special" because they "fell" off a trailer in Mexico...

There are plenty of suppliers for lamps for our industry and eBay should be a last resort.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

Post pictures of the boxes. We have Osram reps here on this board. I'm not positive but they sure sound like knock offs, or wasn't their a batch of bad lamps a while back?

 

[gafftaper]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

DELO72 is a product manager at Osram, I'm sure he'll be along shortly to shed some light on what these "special" lamps are.

 

[Namlit]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

eBay is not your friend when it comes to lamps for our industry.

I would say that is a strongly worded personal opinion, Bandit. While it is certainly true that cultivating a good relationship with a local theatrical supplier is a good thing, I've saved theaters I have worked for/with literally thousands of dollars over the years by using online sources for consumables, including eBay. Yes, there are occasionally problems with eBay vendors, but the same is true for ALL vendors. (Example: the second case of "Special" lamps, the one I returned, came from a well-established brick and mortar theatrical supplier in Indianapolis.)

In any case, sourcing via eBay is not the topic here, these mysterious "Special" HPL's are. Here's a pic from an ad currently running on eBay, listed by yet another vendor, for "Special" HPL lamps. Note the familiar packaging.

(Click pic to enlarge)

I'd love to hear comments from an Osram/Sylvania rep about these.

 

[len]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

Ebay can be tough. It just takes some experience to read between the lines whether the seller is legit and uninformed or running a scam.

 

[danTt]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

While I'm not sure what "special" means (in fact I've wondered for a while) I will say that it does not mean second rate. 90% of lamps I used on tour were marked "special" and failed no more or less than any others. You are making some strong accusations without any proof to back it up, which is always a bad foot to start from.

 

[Namlit]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

I was talking over my "Special" issue with a friend of mine, who knows the size rig I have in the theater where I am M.E., and asked me how I was sure that it was the "special" lamps that were burning out at a faster than normal rate. i thought that was a really good question, because had it not been for a particular set of circumstances I doubt I would have noticed that my "special" HPLs were not up to snuff. As I mentioned before, they appear identical to regular Osram/Sylvania HPLs, and one wouldn't be able to distinguish a used "special" from a used regular HPL at all. The only obvious difference is the word "special" on the box label.

I noticed because I used 10 of my case of 12 "special" lamps to lamp ten brand new Source 4 PARs I had purchased, the first instruments of that type in my theater. As I mentioned in my original post, four of the lamps died almost immediately after their initial power-up. Those lamps showed the tell-tale signs of envelope failure. Two of them got replaced with the remaining "special" lamps, and tagged. The three lamps that have died since then seem to have met a filament-related demise.

I think we can all agree that a 7/12 failure rate is pretty unacceptable. I'm getting increasingly curious, now that I have read comments like danTt's, and considered how it was really a fluke that I even noticed my "special" problem, about how prevalent these "special" HPLs are. Most of us don't give regular lamp-changes a second thought, let alone track the failure rate of a particular case of lamps. I would love to hear from other folks with "Special" lamps in their inventory. (And I know we're all curious about the official story on these lamps from an Osram/Sylvania rep.)

 

[Esoteric]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

I was talking over my "Special" issue with a friend of mine, who knows the size rig I have in the theater where I am M.E., and asked me how I was sure that it was the "special" lamps that were burning out at a faster than normal rate. i thought that was a really good question, because had it not been for a particular set of circumstances I doubt I would have noticed that my "special" HPLs were not up to snuff. As I mentioned before, they appear identical to regular Osram/Sylvania HPLs, and one wouldn't be able to distinguish a used "special" from a used regular HPL at all. The only obvious difference is the word "special" on the box label.

I noticed because I used 10 of my case of 12 "special" lamps to lamp ten brand new Source 4 PARs I had purchased, the first instruments of that type in my theater. As I mentioned in my original post, four of the lamps died almost immediately after their initial power-up. Those lamps showed the tell-tale signs of envelope failure. Two of them got replaced with the remaining "special" lamps, and tagged. The three lamps that have died since then seem to have met a filament-related demise.

I think we can all agree that a 7/12 failure rate is pretty unacceptable. I'm getting increasingly curious, now that I have read comments like danTt's, and considered how it was really a fluke that I even noticed my "special" problem, about how prevalent these "special" HPLs are. Most of us don't give regular lamp-changes a second thought, let alone track the failure rate of a particular case of lamps. I would love to hear from other folks with "Special" lamps in their inventory. (And I know we're all curious about the official story on these lamps from an Osram/Sylvania rep.)

Keep in mind you can get just a bad box of lamps. I have before. I have gotten a 12/12 dead box before. Not special or anything. Just a bad box.

Mike

 

[DuckJordan]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

Okay, you got a bad batch, we've been using "special" lamps in our source fours since January last year. We've only noticed the regular failure rate (comparing to FEL's in strands used side by side) we track by fixture number (Actually labeled on the yoke). There isn't any noticeable difference from the special lamps to the regular lamps we use occasionally. I can't give you numbers but I can tell you that I will try to take note of lamp usage (written log of lamp changes + hours burned).

 

[tyler.martin]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

I've been using a mix of Osram and GE HPL's in my rig to compare the life of the specific lamp brands, I've got 3 types of Osram HPL's all marked SPECIAL and I got one of the boxes right from the Osram rep here. None of which have failed with any of those symptoms, I'll check my 575w lot codes to compare to the code on yours.

I guess two things to bring up are:

1) Have you touched the glass of the envelope

2) Are your dimmers trimmed to output 120volts? If they aren't, you might be under driving the lamp filament, which apparently can cause premature failures in lamps. It usually only effects 115v lamps on 120v dimmers.

 

[DavidNorth]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

2) Are your dimmers trimmed to output 120volts? If they aren't, you might be under driving the lamp filament, which apparently can cause premature failures in lamps. It usually only effects 115v lamps on 120v dimmers.

Technically one would be overdriving the lamps if 115V lamps were on a circuit trimmed at 120V. But yes, that would drastically reduce lamp life.

One application we often forget about is direct plugging into wall outlets or non-dim circuits. These are not regulated outlets, as one would have on a dimming system outlet, and can provide quite high voltage and therefore very reduced lamp life.

I'm not sure either of these are happening and also suspect a bad batch which does happen from time to time. The production number on the lamps will likely help determine that when talking with the manufacturer. My guess about the SPecial moniker is that it refers to the HPL series as a Special Application type of lamp, but will eagerly await our Osram friend for his input.

David

 

[icewolf08]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

Where's Ship when we need him?

In general, I buy my HPL lamps from whatever reputable vendor will give me the best price. So sometimes I get Osram, sometimes GE, sometimes, Ushio.... Every box of Osram lamps I can remember getting was labeled with the "Special" listing, and I have never had any issues with them. I always buy the high output versions of both HPL750 and HPL575 lamps except for use in our worklights (S4 PARs lamped with HPL750X).

That being said, I would agree with the folks who have said that you probably got a bad box of lamps. It happens. If you are buying from a reputable dealer, you probably are not getting cut-rate lamps. I have had bad batches of lamps from multiple manufacturers, and if you document it well, you can often get them replaced.

Also, it seems to be the general consensus that 90% of the people selling theatrical equipment on eBay have exactly zero idea what they have and what they are selling. They are often either asking astronomical prices, selling cheap chinese knock-offs, or completely mis-describing the item they are selling. ON the other hand, there are eBay sellers who are connected with reputable companies and who you can expect to get a good product from. So do your homework before buying on eBay. Also consider that most of the sellers who are not connected with reputable companies probably just list every bit of information on the box of lamps because they have less idea what it means than you do. They are hoping that by putting all those details it will attract serches and buyers.

Long story short, I don't think that there is anything to be concerned with when buying Osram lamps with the "Special" designation, in fact I don't hink that they make an HPL that doesn't carry that. In any case, i have been using them for years, with no apparent issues, so I wouldn't get all up in arms about this. I would call your vendor, give them your documentation on the issue and the information off the box and see if they can help you out. Short of that you could go directly to Osram, but that might be more hassle than it is worth. If you have a good relationship with the vendor you purchased the lamps from , they should be happy to jump through the hoops for you.

 

[ship]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

Hey Ship,

Can I beg a huge favor if you have the chance? I'm on the road traveling for the day, and won't be able to respond until later tonight.

Could you please let them know that I've read it, and will be on later with a full explanation to put the matter to rest.

If you want, you can let them know that ALL HPLs we make say "special" because our labels pull in data from three fields- watts, volts, and lamp base, and the product manager who originally set up the HPLs didn't know what to call the HPL's unique "G9.5 with Heat-sink", so he put "SPECIAL" in the field to denote it was a unique base.

Much appreciated.

Cheers,

Mark

Side note, special means nothing more than Shark XS or Gold or Platinum etc. in the lamp description. No Philips MSD Platinum 5R lamps don't have platinum in them. Sounds like a bad batch of lamps or worse yet, a used batch of lamps. Been using both Osram/Sylvania and Ushio lamps for years now as with the other two brands at times. No lamp life problems overall.

 

[DELO72]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

First up- Special thanks to Ship for passing that along. Also thank you GaffTaper and everyone else who asked me to weigh in. Much obliged. I was on the road all day and my cell phone was dying, and as a Blackberry it's not conducive to web browsing and forum typing. That said....

Every OSRAM label (as mentioned above via Ship) has four fields on it, The name of the lamp, then underneath that is the Watts and Volts, and underneath that is the Lamp base. Check out a box of FELs or FLKs, and in that same area you'll see G9.5. So "Special" is simply how we reference the unique base of the HPL lamp. I actually noticed that a few years back and thought I changed it, but apparently it didn't take in the system and I have since gotten side tracked onto other items. It's been that way for us for the past 20 years since we first made the HPL, so it really hasn't been an issue. It probably SHOULD say "G9.5 w/Heat Sink", and I will probably look to change that in future production based on this. But then I worry that a thread will start up saying, "Hey! My Special OSRAM HPLs are only Normal now! What happened to the extra quality?!? I don't want these lesser versions!" *snicker* So, to put this to rest, Namlit-- please rest assured you did not get scammed or secondary product. Special is merely one of our internal system terms for "unique" or "I don't know what to call this as it is a new base type and none of the standard options in my dropdown list applies."


As to the bigger concern-- your quality concern: "Careful inspection revealed minor flaws: some lamps on the envelope, some on the base, some not at all. The true test was burning the lamp in a light. Of my dozen lamps, four burned-out immediately (within 3 minutes) of being powered. I've lost three more since installing them, approximately 20 hours of burn-time ago. The remainder seem to be perfectly fine (for now). Color temperature seems normal as well."

"minor flaws"--I'll start out by saying hands down, we have the BEST looking, GORGEOUS HPLs on the market and no one comes even close to us in visual appearance and cosmetic quality. I'll put our lamps up against any of the competition any day of the week in that regard-- and I'll win each time. No contest.

So on to the REAL issue- The lamps failing early:: It sounds like you got a bad batch. It happens. We make close to 500,000 HPLs a year. Our quality complaint return rate on them is less than .1% Do we have some bad batches from time to time? Absolutely. Everyone who manufactures anything does. These could be an instance of that, and if so we will absolutely do everything to get you good replacement lamps right away. What I would do is please contact the dealer you bought them from, return them for replacement, they will forward them to our quality lab for inspection to see what happened.

A lot of people already posted other possibilities for why the lamps could have failed early (fingerprints, voltage), but honestly even if you were getting 120V at the plug they wouldn't/shouldn't have died that quickly. I really would love to get the lamps back to review, and we'll definitely take care of you with replacements. I'll tell you what-please email me at Mark.DeLorenzo @ Sylvania.com and we'll work on how to get them back and I'll get some more out to you.

Just umm... please don't get upset if they say "Special" in the base field on the label.

Cheers,

And thanks for your input and thoughts everyone.


Mark

 

[Namlit]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

Note: I wrote this prior to reading Mark's post (#16), which I really appreciated reading. While I accept his explanation, I'm still looking at a case of HPLs not labeled "special", as I have many times in the past. Possibly Mark's attempt to change the label a few years back took hold after all?

I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed their two cents to this discussion. As a new member of CB, it's great to know there are so many thoughtful and helpful folks out there ready to offer their insights and assistance.

I noticed that several folks who responded assumed that, since I am new to the discussion forum, I must be new to the industry and thus perhaps in need of basic advice such as "don't touch the lamp envelope with your fingers". While I thought that my initial posting made it clear that I had a certain level of expertise, let me state for the record: I've been an Entertainment Electrician and Lighting Designer for 27 years and know my stuff. No worries though...my ego will recover

Now, as to the matter of all Osram/Sylvania HPL lamps being labeled "Special": This is not true. I'm looking at a case I purchased just last week, and the word "Special" is nowhere to be found on either the individual or case labels. While it is possible that "Special" HPLs have been around for awhile (as several folks noted), and even that I may have used Osram/Sylvania HPL lamps labeled "Special" in the past without noticing, I am pretty convinced that the word "Special" has not been standard on the label. If, as Osram rep mark says, All Osram/Sylvania HPL lamps say "Special" on the label, why do I have so many Osram/Sylvania HPLs in my inventory without that designation?

I hope we can get a better explanation of the "Special" designation on Osram HPLs than has been provided thus far. In the meantime, I've been convinced that my bad-luck case of "Special" HPLs was a fluke.

 

[DELO72]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed their two cents to this discussion. As a new member of CB, it's great to know there are so many thoughtful and helpful folks out there ready to offer their insights and assistance.

I noticed that several folks who responded assumed that, since I am new to the discussion forum, I must be new to the industry and thus perhaps in need of basic advice such as "don't touch the lamp envelope with your fingers". While I thought that my initial posting made it clear that I had a certain level of expertise, let me state for the record: I've been an Entertainment Electrician and Lighting Designer for 27 years and know my stuff. No worries though...my ego will recover

Now, as to the matter of all Osram/Sylvania HPL lamps being labeled "Special": This is not true. I'm looking at a case I purchased just last week, and the word "Special" is nowhere to be found on either the individual or case labels. While it is possible that "Special" HPLs have been around for awhile (as several folks noted), and even that I may have used Osram/Sylvania HPL lamps labeled "Special" in the past without noticing, I am pretty convinced that the word "Special" has not been standard on the label. If, as Osram rep mark says, All Osram/Sylvania HPL lamps say "Special" on the label, why do I have so many Osram/Sylvania HPLs in my inventory without that designation?

I hope we can get a better explanation of the "Special" designation on Osram HPLs than has been provided thus far. In the meantime, I've been convinced that my bad-luck case of "Special" HPLs was a fluke.

Okay- I admit to being perplexed. What is in the base field area of the label on the other HPLs you have? Can you send another picture? I checked our system and it shows this for that lamp and a few of our other most popular HPLs:

Short Base Description: SPECIAL
Long Base Description: Medium Bi-pin with Heat Sink

Unfortunately our labels pull the base field data from the "Short Description". Now you have me wondering if perhaps we made the name change on SOME of the HPLs, and just didn't get it changed on all of them....

I checked the date code on the batch of those lamps (Production date code is the small # in the lower right corner on the label and on the lamp, and is Jxxx (J268 in this case), and those were made in June of 2012. I'll check with the factory and see if they had any other reports of early failures from any from that batch.

Best Regards,

Mark

 

[Namlit]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

left image is one I pulled from the web.

 

[LavaASU]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

Hey Mark, the OP said that pic was from an ebay Ad not his lamps. So that may not be the same batch.

 

[josh88]

re: Osram's "special" labelling... and a bad box of lamps

I noticed that several folks who responded assumed that, since I am new to the discussion forum, I must be new to the industry and thus perhaps in need of basic advice such as "don't touch the lamp envelope with your fingers".

The "you're new here" part is more that you'll probably learn this isn't specific to you. As a community we're good about reminding even the best of us to remember the simple stuff like that, because sometimes thats what the cause is and we're so used to things that we look past it. So I don't think anybody meant that as a detractor towards you, we just like to cover the bases quick and when you say I didn't touch them that immediately rules out one of the obvious things and we can focus on something else. So your ego should stay intact ;-)