Think on the bright side: no more illumination problems!
Power Where No Power Can Go
- Thread starterbishopthomas
- Start date
Think on the bright side: no more illumination problems!
Since a lot of the suggestions point to having a second boat, is there any reason you can't just put the banner on a second boat and then do whatever your heart desires for lighting and power?
It could be easier to install truss on a barge, but it's probably cheaper just to rent a pontoon boat and hang the banner over the side of it, or for that matter just rent a second barge. A day's rate on a barge rental isn't very much and you'll already have tugboats on-site to move the barge into place.
Could be worth looking into.
It could be easier to install truss on a barge, but it's probably cheaper just to rent a pontoon boat and hang the banner over the side of it, or for that matter just rent a second barge. A day's rate on a barge rental isn't very much and you'll already have tugboats on-site to move the barge into place.
Could be worth looking into.
bishopthomas
Well-Known Member
My client said "no generator" and that's really all that matters. I'm not qualified to argue the point even if I wanted to. Another boat would probably be out of the question but I'll throw that out as an option. It's a 20' x 20' banner, I believe already made, or at least already committed.
I'm going to try to stay away from battery power. It's a two day gig and I'm not sure if I'll have access (or want to deal with) to the barge to charge/change batteries. I like the spotlight idea the best, second choice is to run "shore" power. I'll make some phone calls Monday morning and find out more details and see what they want to do.
I'm going to try to stay away from battery power. It's a two day gig and I'm not sure if I'll have access (or want to deal with) to the barge to charge/change batteries. I like the spotlight idea the best, second choice is to run "shore" power. I'll make some phone calls Monday morning and find out more details and see what they want to do.
can you rent a forklift battery or two?
Raymond of New Jersey, LLC. | Batteries, Accessories & Solutions
Raymond of New Jersey, LLC. | Batteries, Accessories & Solutions
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I like the idea of using low voltage lamps with batteries. As others have mentioned, there are plenty of reflector lamps that'll do the job, even sealed beam car headlights, or low-voltage landscaping floods or spots. An incandescent bulb doesn't care if the voltage is AC or DC.
Lanscaping lights are perfect for this as they are essentially sealed beam lamps on a stick. The whole barge will be filled with sand to hold the mortars, so just stick them in the sand and adjust the aim.
Inverters have significant conversion losses, which means they wouldn't run the lights as long on the same size battery.
If you try the shore power approach, voltage drop will be a major consideration. It may take a really heavy guage cable if you need some current. Also, don't try floating the cable because then you run the risk of a boat prop finding it.
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what are the dimensions of the banner?
Hope it doesn't get windy...
We're getting off topic.
If a professional sign shop is making this they'll put holes it in anyway.
Any deep cycle, sealed battery will work well. Forklift (as mentioned) is best, but you could go for RV, golf cart, or marine batteries as well. Just do the math beforehand.
For example, the Optima Blue Top (marine) battery has about 66 Ah of juice at 13V. Now, the 66 Ah rating is ALWAYS low. Battery designers mark them low so it averages over the life of the battery since the voltage drop as it discharges will compensate.
Anyways, the formula for battery discharge time is T=C/(I^n) where:
- T is the total discharge time
- C is the capacity in Amp-hours
- I is the current draw
- n is Peukert's number (typically between 1.1 and 1.3)
Now, the only way to find the Peukert number is to actually discharge the battery with the expected load and see how long it lasts (which kinda defeats using the math, haha) but if you assume the upper end of 1.3, then you cover your bases.
So, let's say you're rocking LEDs, and your total draw is 6 amps. On a battery with a 66 Ah rated capacity, with n=1.3, you'd get approximately 6.4 hours of running time. Assuming +/- 20% capacity will further give you a little more breathing room, so say 5.12 hours to be safe.
Also remember you need to wire them in PARALLEL, not series, to maintain the ~12V capacity, and you'll need to account for losses in your inverter as well.
For example, the Optima Blue Top (marine) battery has about 66 Ah of juice at 13V. Now, the 66 Ah rating is ALWAYS low. Battery designers mark them low so it averages over the life of the battery since the voltage drop as it discharges will compensate.
Anyways, the formula for battery discharge time is T=C/(I^n) where:
- T is the total discharge time
- C is the capacity in Amp-hours
- I is the current draw
- n is Peukert's number (typically between 1.1 and 1.3)
Now, the only way to find the Peukert number is to actually discharge the battery with the expected load and see how long it lasts (which kinda defeats using the math, haha) but if you assume the upper end of 1.3, then you cover your bases.
So, let's say you're rocking LEDs, and your total draw is 6 amps. On a battery with a 66 Ah rated capacity, with n=1.3, you'd get approximately 6.4 hours of running time. Assuming +/- 20% capacity will further give you a little more breathing room, so say 5.12 hours to be safe.
Also remember you need to wire them in PARALLEL, not series, to maintain the ~12V capacity, and you'll need to account for losses in your inverter as well.
Small, probably insignificant note:
It might not be filled with sand, if you have a plan needing sand, have a backup plan.
This is a rigging photo from the International fireworks festival in Hannover
www.pyroworld.nl Professional fireworks videos and photos - International Fireworks festival Hannover - Gotenborg - Sweden
Using a common rigging technique.(Not using sand)
ejsandstrom
Member
LP generators need a vaporizer. Engines cannot run on liquid. A vaporizer needs a source of heat, like a block heater or electric vaporizer. LPV would be an idea but you would need a good size tank to make enough vapor.
I have never seen a battery blow up while discharging. Batteries blow up when they are being over charged and start gassing excessively, and then a spark, like a firework would light the gas.
To the OP: I would look at getting 2 8D batteries. They are 12vdc each, I do not know the Ah but they are between 1100 and 1600CCA so I would think Ah would not be a problem. They run about $150 each. They are heavy but not unmanageable like a fork lift battery. Then a 600W (I think you were looking at 140w load) inverter is about $60. Should power you lights from dusk to dawn both days if you wanted. There are "battery generators" out there but they are just a battery and inverter in a convenient package.
CCA and Ah are two entirely different things. In fact, the higher the cranking amps, generally the less Ah (running time) you get, since higher cranking amps are meant for quick discharge, whereas long running time is based off slow discharge.
ejsandstrom
Member
For Fun I looked them up 8D's are rated for about 240-255Ah. So 2 in parallel and you have about 500Ah. This is equal to 6000 watts (12vdc*500a) IIRC the OP said he had 140watt draw. Even if we consider it a 200 watt draw due to losses in the inverter, that would still give you 30 hours of lights. Excluding other math problems
I don't have the exact make/models of the ones I've used - but I have had great luck in ballrooms picking up the biggest UPS's I could find short of being rack mounted, and using 1/fixture. In the past I've gotten them to last between 3-4 hours no problem running a straight color on the LED fixture (perfect for cocktail receptions).
It may be worth experimenting with since some major retailers have a 14 day return policy. Go ahead and pick one up, charge it, and let it run for a few hours with one of your lights and see how it lasts.
Also as an occasional pyro tech the generator would concern me as it is an additional possible source static discharge, and with most shows firing on electric matches and most barges being steel, I'd prefer to not take the chance.
It may be worth experimenting with since some major retailers have a 14 day return policy. Go ahead and pick one up, charge it, and let it run for a few hours with one of your lights and see how it lasts.
Also as an occasional pyro tech the generator would concern me as it is an additional possible source static discharge, and with most shows firing on electric matches and most barges being steel, I'd prefer to not take the chance.
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