Programming Console Conventionals for touring

[stgtech91]

So I'm about to be LD / programmer for a small tour and realized that I'm not sure what the best way to program conventionals for a tour is.. We are traveling with only a console (Hog II) and no dimmer rack. This is where I have hit a snag. Normally the only thing I have to update venue to venue is my moving light focus pallets. However, with no ML and no rack I don't know how to program my dimmers.

Ideally- I was hoping the groups worked like the other palettes (i.e. when I programmed ch1-10 as group "sidelights" into a cue, then modified the group "sidelights" to be channels 11-20 such as at a new venue, I had hoped that it would update in the cue... no such luck. 1-10 still came on even though group "sidelights" was programmed to be 11-20.

My other thought is that this could be done in patch (go figure) but I would think this is not as ideal since Im sure my fixtures will vary greatly... for instance one theater might have 5 FOH amber channels, but the next one might have 8. So at that point would I double patch? Seems so much easier to simply update the programming groups each time.

Basically, I would like to know how LD's and programmers have dealt with this issue for years...

 

[DayOne]

It looks like the patch way might be the better way to go. However, there is a way to compensate for the problem of varying house rigs. When you are developing your channeling and grouping, leave room! Rather than using channeling back-to-back (1-6 Front, 7-12 back) use broad channel ranges (1-10 front, 11-20 back). That way you can cover a broad range. On this same idea, when you create your groups, use the entire range in the group (Group 1 is ch1-10). Then when you patch, you can use however many or few of your pre-designated channels that you may need in the patch and your front-end result stays the same when you are programming. This would only create problems if you want discrete control and can't remember how many of your 1-10 you are using on this particular rig. Either way good luck!

 

[Call911]

Unless you need direct control of individual lights, it shouldn't matter. If your cue calls for first electric blue pars on, it doesn't matter if there's 5 or 50, they can all go on. All you have to do is update the patch. You can put as many dimmers as you want on one channel.

Updating the patch from venue to venue makes the most sense. You can patch all the house lights to one channel, that way in a huge house with 100 house lights, and a small house with 10 house lights, it's still the same channel.

You might want to keep conventional fixtures on one universe, and intelligent fixtures on another universe. This way your intelligent fixtures are never affected by changes in patch. If you started intelligent fixtures at dmx 201, what happens when you get to a hall with 3 racks of 96 dimmers? I've worked a few shows in many theaters, and the largest number of dimmers I've ever seen in one venue was in Vegas, and had 5 racks of 96. That still is only one universe.

 

[rochem]

I haven't programmed for a situation exactly like this, but I have programmed tours where the whole lighting package was carried except for the FOH, which was always house units. And in these situations, we had to plan for venues with anything from a cove, balc rail, and two box booms per side to venues with nothing but a single box boom pipe. On my last show, we coordinated with the designer and basically ended up having as few individual channels of control as we could get away with. I think we did 3 channels of frontlight, one channel for each color of box boom wash light from each side, and one channel for each balc rail wash color. However, in the venue where we teched it, we actually had 6 instruments for frontlight spread across two positions, 3 instruments for each box boom color from each side, and 5 instruments for each balc rail wash. Because the designer didn't absolutely NEED separate control, we were able to get away with this. And this made it super easy for them to repatch for new venues. The venue immediately after tech had the frontlight in the box booms, so they just put 3 lights in each box boom, channeled them for the 3 frontlight channels, and it worked wonderfully.

We also tried this idea where instead of recording hard values for the frontlight, we swapped everything over to an intensity palette. If the designer wanted the light at 75%, we put it at 75, then recorded that into an intensity palette labeled "75%". Then at the next venue, if the FOH was significantly closer or whatever, the head elec could just update that palette to go to 60% or whatnot, and the show would still look good. In actuality, this really didn't prove that useful. The road guys just ended up changing the proportion of the channels in the patch, and while that wasn't quite as true to the original design, the slightly more accurate look wasn't worth the extra time it took to update 10 intensity palettes at every stop.

On a side note - I've lately been thinking more and more about giving consoles the option to patch more than one channel to a single dimmer. There's a thread going on at the ETC forums about this, and I really can see a use for it. Instead of having to cut down to single channels, we could have given every light its own channel for maximum control. When they went into venues with less lights, they could patch the DSL and USL areas together to create one massive "SL" area, and in more equipped venues, they could have the maximum amount of control. Seems super useful for touring situations just like this one. But I digress.

 

[derekleffew]

...On a side note - I've lately been thinking more and more about giving consoles the option to patch more than one channel to a single dimmer. ...

Although traditionalists (like me) may balk at the idea, it was being done (though not widely accepted by any stretch of the imagination) back in 1984:

...
- This [Electro Controls Premiere] was one of the few consoles ever designed that had an overlapping softpatch, that is, any dimmer could be patched to more than one control channel. ...

Back to topic:
Yes, it's a good idea to dedicate one universe to solely control house dimmers.
In prepping for a tour, one has to consider all the potential venues and plan for the least common denominator.
Touring in general: If it (whatever it is) is critical to your show, bring it with you. Don't depend on or expect the house to provide an 1837 Louis XIV left-handed credenza. They may be only able to come up with right-handed ones.

 

[SteveB]

My first thought was Why a Hog ?. Not quite as easy to setup for conventional cued lighting as say an Express. So why not an Express 250 ?.

Next thought process was - There's an original Lighting Designer ?, or is that you ?. Is there a tech week before hitting the road ? at some venue with a conventional rig that lets the design mature to what will be needed on the tour ?. I would then assume that there's a plot and hookup that has defined channels for specific purposes and that the cues for the show will always uses those channel numbers at specific levels and timings. In truth, if you used an Express or Ion you could travel with a floppy disk and/or USB drive as you will run into both those consoles (as well as Elements, Expressions and Insights) very often. Then drag the touring Express off the truck only when needed.

You will then essentially be changing your channel to dimmer patch according to whatever the house rig has set up for you, according to your channeling, purposes and colors. Or you can get a copy of the house system in advance and make the choices, then send the paperwork off to the venue to execute and have ready when you arrive. In situations like this, being conversant in Vectorworks and Lightwright, as well as the off-line editors for the console, is useful.

So really, the only thing you would be changing is the channel to dimmer/address patch and since you have no movers or other accessories, a single universe is about all that's going to be dealt with (typically).

 

[cbrandt]

I've done this on a Hog IPC. These guys have given you most of the good answers. If you use broad channel ranges and intensity palletes, you can deal with the problem of different lighting positioins needing different intensities for an even wash. Group all your like fixtures into the right channels in your patch, and you'll spend longer focusing the FOH then you will dealing the programming. Saved my keister many times on that tour.

 

[traxman25]

It looks like the patch way might be the better way to go. However, there is a way to compensate for the problem of varying house rigs. When you are developing your channeling and grouping, leave room! Rather than using channeling back-to-back (1-6 Front, 7-12 back) use broad channel ranges (1-10 front, 11-20 back). That way you can cover a broad range. On this same idea, when you create your groups, use the entire range in the group (Group 1 is ch1-10). Then when you patch, you can use however many or few of your pre-designated channels that you may need in the patch and your front-end result stays the same when you are programming. This would only create problems if you want discrete control and can't remember how many of your 1-10 you are using on this particular rig. Either way good luck!

This is the route I'd take. Another benefit to programming in broad groups is you'll be able to set up a numbering scheme that will help keep things easier to remember. Groups can have their own 10's or 100's place designation, then each focus point can have it's own 1's or 10's designation. This way you always know that DSR is position number 1 and Center is position 3 and USL is 7. So for example front light can be group 10, Top light can be group 20, SR side light can be 30 (and so on). Then when you want the front light, top light and side light for focus "A" or DSR you can quickly remember that is point 1 and grab fixtures 11, 21, and 31. You don't have to remember that that is channel 1, 8, and 15.

I don't know about the Hog system but on EOS software you can also set the live display to show only patched channels. So if you start the load in with a blank patch with each group's channel section labeled you could then set the live display to show only patched channels and you'd be able to quickly reference you broad groups and see what you have to work with very quickly.

 

[DuckJordan]

If its a tour it won't matter. The show will be the same. Use channels and dmx addresses for the house dimmers will be patched at each venue. That's what I've see in the shows coming through who use our house package.

 

[soundman]

Don't forget about inhibitive subs. Some venues will have much brighter rigs than others and it is nice to be able to pull down just the N/C front light or the top light with out affecting the whole rig.

I did a ballet show where we used the house cyc. I had a cyc light package but it was a pain in the ass to hang and another thing to focus. Most of the time houses would have their own cyc light package that I could use. And rather than touring a set of gel for every style cyc light I would work with what they had in house. I created three or four ranges of cyc channels 600's was the tour look, 700's was if it was RGBA and 800s, was another color combo.

All the cues would have all three sets of channels in it but I would only patch dimmers to the set I was using. Ended up working nicely and saved time in a lot of cities.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

Going to bump this thread with something similar, but different.

I'm going out as the LD for a club tour (House of Blues sized venues). I'll be carrying an MA2 Wing as well as a small ground package. During pre-programming I will program my rig, as well as add in virtual house fixtures to MA3D that I can clone off per venue. Easy Peasy. Now the tricky part, how do I deal with conventionals?

Every venue will have different quantities of systems and fixtures. Some venues may have 6 colors US and DS with a half dozen specials, some might only have a handful of pars out front. Normally my instinct would be to fix conventional faders onto handles, but I only have a few of those available on the wing.

In the cue stacks I will probably include channels for specials on each of the guys, and I am sure I will dedicate one handle to be the "oh crap" front wash handle, but I'm not sure what to do with the varying amount of pars I will have US? I could always just run my wing next to whatever the house console is.

 

[Footer]

Many guys in our place go side by side. Less patching to do day of. The few that do take our dimmers have a pallet for color and use whats they have that day. We have 6 colors, most guys just use 4. If you leave house console out you don't have to deal with house guys on your console which usually keeps everyone happier... Including the house guy.

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