Projections as Set for The Music Man

[Robersim]

Ok, First of all, I would like to apologize for posting this in the wrong board. Aside from this being the most populous board, I am a Lighting Designer myself so I find it easier to talk to other lampies.



I'll start by giving you a little background Info. I am a semi-professional lighting designer in high school. I've done lighting design for 3 years and have been a programmer for 6. I do freelance ALD, and LD work with local dance studios and theatre companies.
My school has decided to do "The Music Man" as the fall musical. I have never done this show myself before but have seen it multiple times.
My worry is that when it comes time for me to send my portfolio off to schools or potential employers (I plan on making a career out of this) that all of the poorly designed sets will detract from the lighting design.
We run on very low budgets, so I had the Idea of doing rear projection on flats covered in white spandex to form some of the sets. This will hopefully improve the general look of our sets, as well as give it a modern feeling, while maintaining the look of the historical buildings, etc.
We have a large 3D Modelling and Virtual Reality department that would I'm sure love to join in, as well as a great Television/video production department.
My questions are:
1. Have any of you done anything like this before.
2. Do you think the look of projections would be "too weird" for a show like this.
Thanks!
P.S. Sorry for the wall of text, just thought I would ask some other people their opinions before taking this to the TD.

 

[gafftaper]

Projection is not a cheap alternative. Do you have a big theater projector to use? Something that puts out 5,000-10,000 lumens? If you can't afford a big set or backdrop, it's unlikely that you can afford the rental of a projector powerful enough to handle your needs. As soon as you start lighting the stage a projection gets washed away unless it's much brighter than the stage lights. You can't just slap a typical classroom projector up and expect to see it. Also using spandex is an okay but not the greatest alternative. You really need rear screen projection material which is also expensive. Not to burst your bubble but it's not the cheap way to do things.

 

[Wood4321]

I have seen this done, and Done well, However,
To do this correctly can take a lot of money. What equipment does your Video production Department have at your disposal?

Here are a few items you should see if they have available, as they will be quite cost prohibitive to rent.

1-4 8k-20k video projectors
Playback device, (May need edge blending capability?)
Video Over ethernet distribution (Magenta or similar)
Video Content (Can be the hardest part!)

As for rear projection, This can take a large amount of backstage space, How large of a projection would this be?
10'x15'? Larger? How much space behind the screen will you have to place the projector?

Depending on the video content, I don't think it has to be weird... It could look great! But once again, its all about the equipment and content.

Have you thought about doing this with slide projectors instead? This may be more cost effective.

if you can get us some parameters of your venue and what size video you were contemplating, we may have a few more suggestions.

Good Luck!

 

[Robersim]

I have seen this done, and Done well, However,
To do this correctly can take a lot of money. What equipment does your Video production Department have at your disposal?

Here are a few items you should see if they have available, as they will be quite cost prohibitive to rent.

1-4 8k-20k video projectors
Playback device, (May need edge blending capability?)
Video Over ethernet distribution (Magenta or similar)
Video Content (Can be the hardest part!)

As for rear projection, This can take a large amount of backstage space, How large of a projection would this be?
10'x15'? Larger? How much space behind the screen will you have to place the projector?

Depending on the video content, I don't think it has to be weird... It could look great! But once again, its all about the equipment and content

Have you thought about doing this with slide projectors instead? This may be more cost effective.

if you can get us some parameters of your venue and what size video you were contemplating, we may have a few more suggestions.

Good Luck!

Hi there. Thanks for the Reply.

My stage is about D30'xW50'xH~25'. I was considering 16 foot high by 8 feet wide "flats" to project these on. about 3 of them. We have one high output projector (from before we had all 750w source fours). As I look at it this project is not seeming very feasible, but I like trying to move towards more multimedia for our shows.

 

[chawalang]

You mentioned your reason for this is because the poorly designed sets will distract from your lighting design. Im not trying to be rude but I highly doubt you have the experience or knowledge in high school to go straight into a situation where you will make a living as a full time LD much less be considered professional or semi professional. In my professional opinion I would never hire or recommend someone to hire someone straight out of a high school as an LD or ALD. So if that is what your worried about its a worry I would put aside for a few years. Second you mentioned this same problem when applying to universities, again I would not worry about this. The professors you will be interviewing with for scholarships and entrance into an undergrad program are going to understand that your high school production is not going to look like the national tour of Rock of Ages. Another point I would like to bring up as that you stated that the scenic designs are terrible and they may detract for you lighting design, you also mentioned that your run on a very low budget. Again not to be rude but this sounds very arrogant in saying this and it sounds disrespectful to your high school teacher and your fellow classmates. HS teachers today have very limited resources to work with and its even worse for those who teach in the arts. So the attitude that using projections will make it better sounds like your discrediting their hard work. Its true that the line between video and lighting is blurred in the industry and that as an LD or electrician these are two disciplines you need to know about. However you need to also understand the marriage between lighting and scenic design as well, if I was a professor I would tell you to see how you can make these two work together as oppose to trying to use projection. Its easy to want to throw technology at something with the hope that it will make it better but keep in mind technology not only makes it easier for you to design a brilliant show but also a terrible show. I would also hold this opinion to yourself when talking to potential employers and potential future professors, as I said before it can make a bad first impression . As stated by previous people who have replied to your post I don't think you have the budget, space, time, knowledge or available resources to pull this off where it will look like a good alternative. Video, projections and media servers when used right can look beautiful in a production but I think your a few years away from that.

 

[Wood4321]

Using the Sanyo lens calculator, to get an image that is 16' tall, with a .8 lens you will need 26' behind the screen to get that image.
Of course, if you spec a projector that is able to be turned on its side without burning up, you could get as close as 20' behind the screen.

Front projection helps a lot, but then you have to deal with performers walking through the projection, and you would have to rent projectors that are fly-capable.

I agree, not very feasible,
Unfortunately, Video scenery is never cheaper or easier than actual scenery.
Good Luck!

(Also, you spelled "Summer" wrong in your signature. Unless you work on the Sumer Stock Stage?)

 

[millamber]

It is possible to use projections without washing them out, it just takes a good amount of coordination and planning. In the following pics, there is a 15 foot wall at its tallest made of flats that spans the back of the stage that was lit from the front with 2 2800 Lumen projectors (purchased for $400 each or so). I had to design the lighting to be high and brought around to the side so as not to wash out the projectors.

 

[techieman33]

It is possible to use projections without washing them out, it just takes a good amount of coordination and planning. In the following pics, there is a 15 foot wall at its tallest made of flats that spans the back of the stage that was lit from the front with 2 2800 Lumen projectors (purchased for $400 each or so). I had to design the lighting to be high and brought around to the side so as not to wash out the projectors.

View attachment 7707View attachment 7708View attachment 7709

That's a very dark looking show though. The music man is a very bright show so I doubt you would be able to get away with low output pj's for a show like that.

 

[millamber]

A valid point. Those pics are all during darker moment in the show (A Wrinkle in Time). But the point is that you don't have to have a 10k-20k lumen projector to use projections in a show. It simply takes coordination with the lighting designer, the video designer, and the set designer.

For reference, a brighter moment:

 

[ruinexplorer]

There are definitely different schools of thought on how to incorporate video into a production. You can treat projection as fancy lights with an unlimited range of gobos (like in this article), you can have it be a scenic element (like this video), or it can be just an element of the set (projection in RENT, a TV, etc). I think that experimentation in school with video can be a good thing so that you might be able to learn when it adds to a production and when it detracts from one. This is similar to learning to use moving lights. There is a fine line when they look good or take focus away from what you are lighting.

If you are concerned about your school work, but you say that you are doing outside production work, why not just use your other projects for your portfolio?

 

[techieman33]

Another thing you could do is take pictures of the sets under work lighting, and then under your lighting to show how you helped to improve the looks of any ugly sets.