Mixers/Consoles QSC TouchMix16 to X32

[Jay Ashworth]

Basically this. It's the Model T of digital consoles. On the M32 vs X32 argument, I have to say there's very little difference at the core. Behringer does not differentiate in software between the two. I regularly work on a Producer (don't recommend) which doesn't even have a workaround for the fact that the board does not have physical mute group buttons which effectively makes it impossible to program mute groups using the surface by itself.

All that said, I moved to a M32 from a GLD and aside from the fact that they put the layer switching buttons on the wrong side of the fader bank, it was pretty easy to adapt. The biggest hurdle is the routing and patching, which is still an incomprehensible mess compared to how A&H does it.

It's been asserted right along that the M32 *had Midas pre-amps*, while the x32 had preamps *designed by Midas*, but not the quality of gear they put in their own name boards...

 

[BCAP]

Basically this. It's the Model T of digital consoles.

I don't mean to misunderstand or take your comment out of context, probably like many people on this board I've been using digital mixers since they were affordable and finally available to your average joe in the mid or late 90s. My first board was an 02R and then I had a DA7 and a host of others. Back in those days my friends regularly told me that they thought a digital mixer would never be used for live sound. And generally at that time I agreed. Though, today - I think it would be an interesting experiment just for the heck of it to try using one of those early boards for a live gig to see if they were really all that horrid for live sound (or theatre).

To my estimation, and please anyone correct me if I'm wrong - without actually doing that comparison - from back in those days the technology seems to have progressed and evolved quite a bit and we are now NOT seeing a difference so much between major features or user interface issues missing, instead, the difference from mfr to mfr's offering has become quite refined. To me the difference between comparable mfr. offerings feels like we're talking about driving a GM vs. a Ford. Or a flavor of digital audio protocol vs. another. Quality of processing maybe. Or maybe workflow differences in the user interface, where some button or feature is located.

The other day I was just showing an auditorium manager how to route some signals on their QL5 and while it's not a board I work on often or regularly I was able to find my way around within a couple minutes without specifically reading the manual. I acknowledge that the Behringer OS is not super intuitive, but I think once you've seen a few digital boards it does become quite a bit easier to work on them. Is it the Model T? Maybe it's the Edsel...

 

[Vince]

Thanks for all the input. With that knowledge i've looked at the different options again. The QSC is a lonely topper just looking for what you get per kg (I'm from the Netherlands, hence the metric (or better, SI) units).
The Behringer X-air comes close, but depends on using a tablet, imho even worse than just no faders.
The Soundcrafts are also out of range, however the Performer looks nice.
The alternative that are still on the board:
The Behringer X32-compact. Not the smallest and lightest, but we know already how it works (Edsel or not ).
The A&H SQ5 looks like a good option, it answers all me needs, but goes for twice the price of an Touchmix16. There is also the QU-16, seems an option, do you heave any recommendations on that one?
The Yamaha 01V96i (has someone used his password for it's name?). I suspect it has the steepest learning curve. Also no Dante, digital snake and remote control with iPad, correct me if I'm wrong...
Don't think I get a trip to the Musik messe sponsored, however it may be wait at least a half year. Maybe there will be a better view to which manufacturer is still alive and will get kicking. Until the summer holidays the need for a console will be next to nothing...

 

[StradivariusBone]

I don't mean to misunderstand or take your comment out of context, probably like many people on this board I've been using digital mixers since they were affordable and finally available to your average joe in the mid or late 90s.

I meant it mostly in the sense that it was the first readily available digital board to cost less than $5000. FWIW I do like working with the Behringer/Midas stuff. The strength is that it all runs on that same software and is super customizable to whatever setup you want. The downsides with dealing with Behringer are obvious, but that doesn't negate that they have a good product line.

The A&H SQ5 looks like a good option, it answers all me needs, but goes for twice the price of an Touchmix16. There is also the QU-16, seems an option, do you heave any recommendations on that one?

The SQ5 is a nice board and the A&H stuff all is pretty interchangable with their line of stage boxes which is also nice. I haven't used a QU-16 extensively, however they are useful as well and something I've always been attracted to with the QU line is that they have USB connections for multitracking with a DAW.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

One of the two boards in my primary house is a QU-16, and I'm honestly not all that fond of it. It's an early-enough generation digital board that the UI/UX designs hadn't shook out quite yet, and you'll have to learn it sui generis, IMHO, and it's sort of annoying...

 

[steine]

I have a SQ5 in my company for smaller gigs, and after having it out for a demo at a church they decided to go with the SQ6 when they changed from the old analog console.
So far they have been happy, to the extend that they have just asked me to give a quote on a second setup with a SQ5.

I love the SQ for the routing possibilities and pretty fast learningcurve if you have been by any other digital console.

I have looked at the QU range as well, but the I/O patching and a few other issues has stopped me from recommending it so far.

For bigger shows, I do musicals primary after all, I have the Yamaha CL series as my primary go to consoles, their workflow for some reason seems to fit my brain the best

 

[Vince]

Thanks for all the input. With that knowledge i've looked at the different options again. The QSC is a lonely topper just looking for what you get per kg (I'm from the Netherlands, hence the metric (or better, SI) units).
The Behringer X-air comes close, but depends on using a tablet, imho even worse than just no faders.
The Soundcrafts are also out of range, however the Performer looks nice.
The alternative that are still on the board:
The Behringer X32-compact. Not the smallest and lightest, but we know already how it works (Edsel or not ).
The A&H SQ5 looks like a good option, it answers all me needs, but goes for twice the price of an Touchmix16. There is also the QU-16, seems an option, do you heave any recommendations on that one?
The Yamaha 01V96i (has someone used his password for it's name?). I suspect it has the steepest learning curve. Also no Dante, digital snake and remote control with iPad, correct me if I'm wrong...
Don't think I get a trip to the Musik messe sponsored, however it may be wait at least a half year. Maybe there will be a better view to which manufacturer is still alive and will get kicking. Until the summer holidays the need for a console will be next to nothing...

In nine month much can change, however the QSSC16 still has to be replaced. But thanks to covid I felt no urge. And more importantly, none of the candidates looked like the right choice.
However, there seems to be a new candidate, the RCF M 20X. I'm not familiar with the brand RCF, although I know some of it's sister companies that are well known.
Has anyone seen or used the M 20X and wish to share opinions?

 

[macsound]

I didn't even know RCF made mixers. They're a well known speaker company, everything from injection molded portable powered stuff all the way up to line arrays.
While the photos don't look bad, photos aren't much of a way of deeming a product suitable.
I'd prefer a company that specializes in consoles as their main bread and butter.

 

[JohnD]

It seems the M 20X was introduced in early 2019:

RCF Expands Digital Mixer and Recording Program with New M 20 Series

With Prolight+Sound 2019 becoming a single-hall trade show, it was hard not to notice a large area of the exhibits where RCF Group combined for the first time all its companies, including RCF, dB Technologies, EAW, DPA Microphones and its ANT brand, created in 2017 for the musician and...

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