Conventional Fixtures question about proscenium lighting

ZJH90

Member
So my school is putting on Cabaret, and my director just informed that she wants a border around the whole proscenium that will light up. I've only been running our tech for two years, and I am not very sure where to begin. I have a descent understanding of electricity and what not, but I need some help. I believe my director wants it to look something like this:
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except all around the stage (of course). What I really need help with is where on earth do I get old fashioned Edison type bulbs like that, and where do I even begin when it comes to wiring. All help is greatly appreciated it. Thank you.
 
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If you don't know enough about wiring, YOU SHOULD NOT ATTEMPT THIS PROJECT.
 
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...What I really need help with is where on earth do I get old fashioned Edison type bulbs like that, and where do I even begin when it comes to wiring. All help is greatly appreciated it. Thank you.
Those really aren't "old fashioned Edison type bulbs." You can buy them at Lowe's/HomeDepot/Walmart. Part of the "concept" of Cabaret is the KitKatKlub is a seedy, run-down establishment, with lighting people/janitors/maintenance men who have, or have not, over the years changed burned out bulbs with anything that would fit, so different wattages, styles and colors of bulbs.

Purchasing, wiring, lamping, 30-50 sockets is not a small task. For a possible, down & dirty, alternative, consider ropelight, (see this thread) LED or incandescent, and wrap various colors of gel around it. Not quite the same look, but almost as effective and easier/less-expensive. (Unless one of the parents is a licensed-electrician willing to help, and donate parts.)

Hope this helps.
 
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Sorry, I should have mentioned that it is not me who will be wiring all of this, but it is my job to come up with a design...
Well, I'm not sure that really matters. Everything said above still holds true. As a Designer, you need to specify sockets on (6", 12", 18" or other) spacings, and # of circuits, and provide a drawing, and specify which lamps you want where. And as a Designer, you also have a budget to remain within. I can easily see the parts alone for this costing $250-500, depending on type and quantity of lamps.

I suggest a trip to your local Home Improvement Center to see what sockets and lamps are readily available, so you have a better idea of what's possible when talking to the fabricators.

Here's one possibility, but not necessarily the proper or recommended one.
 
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It's not exactly the same thing, but when my theatre made a drive in sign, we needed the same light bulb look. We ended up finding christmas lights with screw-in sockets and we found 1.5" round lamps that fit the string. Then we took plywood with holes big enough for the socket part of the lights to fit through and then twisted the lamps in so they would stay on the wood. It may be easier than doing all that wiring.

Also, not sure if you're going for this look, but we found that adding three or four inches of metal sheeting on the sides of the plywood strip gave the lights a really cool contained look, but the audience can still obviously see the bulbs. Hope this helps!
 
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http://www.foxelectricsupply.com/content/products/ProductDetail.asp?qsCatID=26162&qsProductNo=EAG974

I don't have the link anymore but these can be found for less than 80 cents a piece. We did something like that for our production of Chicago. 'Flats' Were made out of 1*4 covered with luan and then the holes were drilled for the sockets. each 'Flat' was a finger of a starburst type portal and had three channels. Zip cord was run on each flat that was wire nutted to trailer wire on the outside of the portal. A bit labor intensive but not that expensive. I was the ME so I have the paper work on my other hard drive but I think we ended up with about 214 sockets lamped with 34 watt lamps. Looking at the show file I am sure they were never on above 40%.
 
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Ahh, I didn't think sockets of that type were available any longer. I seem to recall they only like a particular type/gauge of wire, so the prongs penetrate correctly. Sometimes called "carnival light sockets" or something like that.
 
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We had a bucket of them to start out with, 16 GA wire will work better than 18 and it helps to give it a little push so the prongs pierce the insulation but I know you can still buy them. Great project for the assembly line mentality of running shop practicum.
 
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As Derek said before you get too deep you need to look at budget. Depending on the size of the proscenium and the type of lamp you use, this could get very expensive. Most household style lamps you can get in bulk fairly cheap, but the rounded types can cost a lot more. So do some homework on the websites that have already been linked to and your local Home Depot type stores.
 
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Regarding sockets from your local Home Improvement Center, I discovered that the inexpensive sockets (and I suppose the expensive ones, too) have a rating for the maximum wattage of the bulb. You might want to keep that in mind depending on the "look" that you want. That is, if you design the border with 60 watt bulb maximum sockets you won't be able to use brighter bulbs later if it doesn't "look" right.

You (along with the director?) may want to take a few standard lamps and different bulbs to the venue and see how they look under the different stage lighting conditions.

Joe
 
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Well, I have actually done this a bunch of times with many different types of lights, and I am going to do it again for at least one scene in our season closer, "The Producers." It isn't terribly hard to do, but it can be PITA to set up. Actually, when I think about it, I believe that I have used all the techniques that have been mentioned, from medium screw base "edison" sockets, to candelabra base, to rope light. In fact I used all of the above on last year's production of "Chicago." Here is a photo:
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(see more here)
In that show we had the lighted portal, the two "Chicago" signs on the proscenium and the "Chicago" sign up center. The portal was done with medium screw base G40, 40w white lamps, the "Chicago" signs were done with C7 candelabra base lamps, and around the center "Chicago" was 2 circuit rope light that we could chase. The letters of the "Chicago signs were wired such that each letter could light individually. The portal was wired such that each "Z" could light individually AND have a 3 circuit chase down the "Z" So the portal alone took 24 circuits.

So, you want to know how we did this. Well, the carpentry crew built all of the "Z's" and the "Chicago" letters. I told them how big the lamp bases were and they drilled out holes for them on equidistant centers based on what the scenic designer wanted. For the "Z's" we used a Leviton medium screw base lamp base (I can't remember the part number right now or find it on their site) which were capable of being wired in parallel with eachother. We popped the bases through the holes and then hot glued them on the back side, so that it would be relatively easy to remove them after the show. Wired them up with 12AWG wires to 2P&G connectors.

The light up letters for the "Chicago" signs were slightly more of a PITA. I used a roll of wire with candelabra base sockets that was designed for party/christmas use (the lamp bases all have little clips for attaching to a rope or tree or whatnot). Each socket was hot glued in behind the hole and the lamps fitted through the holes into the bases. As the bases came pre-wired all we had to do was slap a connector on one end. We also had to hide all the cable inside the letters, not fun.

The easiest part was the rope light. We had the ends that allowed the two circuit use, so we just clipped off the edison connectors, in favor of 2P&G and we were set to go.

In all it took 2 skilled people (including myself) about a week to wire every piece. We came out with only hot glue burns (keep a bucket of cold water handy!) and the show looked great. You don't need a high wattage lamp for the portal, it will always show up. I don't think we ever ran the 40w lamps at full, they were plenty bright. It is a really great effect though, so I hope that it works out for you.

I also just found a photo of another show I did with portal border lights. this photo is from "Bat Boy: The Musical"
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This one was done similar to what I did for "Chicago." The lamps are all medium base globes, this time clear. Each vertical and the horizontal stretch of lights has three circuits so we could do 3 circuit chases. I don't remember what wattage lamps we used for that.

Good luck, and feel free to post more questions!
 
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Here's a drawing of part of a portal from Assassins. There's a bit of it with a standard " Carnival Light" / "Rear Mount Sign Light" socket with dimensions on it. I actually printed a full scale drawing of a 3' section for the carps to use as a template when doing the layout of the sockets. We used G25's I believe, and they were standard medium based lamps. I can't for the life of me remember the suppliers name through which I obtained the sockets, but it was a great price. I'll keep looking and see what I can come up with.
 
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Well, I have actually done this a bunch of times with many different types of lights, and I am going to do it again for at least one scene in our season closer, "The Producers." ...
I just saw The Producers, starring Tony Danza, last night at Paris Hotel & Casino, Las Vegas. Show is to close in a couple of days. I believe that production had every type listed above. One odd thing I found is that the 3 followspots were located in AP2, and were probably Robert Juliat 1200HMI units, sandwiched among ETC 410s. Excellent use of MAC2000 Profiles integrated with conventional lighting. Although the show was cut to 100 minutes with no intermission, I don't feel I missed anything. I'm glad I saw Tony Danza in the role of Max, and not David Hasselhoff in the role of Roger.
 
so i'm working on Hello Dolly and my director wants to line the proscenium arch with lights and possibly chase them around. ive been racking my brain and cant come up with a solution. can anyone provide a suggestion about what type of fixture i should use? im at a loss, to say the least.
 
I'm assuming you are in a high school?

It's going to be expensive no matter what you do. The easiest solution would probably be to use a rope light that can do a chase. It would be a bit pricey but very easy for you to install.

Next option, cheaper, easy to install, but not as cool because it won't look great and probably won't chase would be Christmas lights.

The pro option would be to build a false proscenium. Essentially a giant flat that sits in front of the entire proscenium. Then you would install a LOT of light sockets into it. Then you've got to wire them. That's where it's going to get really expensive. You will need a control unit to make it chase. You've got a lot of light bulbs to consider the price of. Is there a parent who is an electrician? Wiring up this many lights safely is a complicated task that a student crew is just not skilled enough to take on. It definitely should have a certified electrician do it for many reasons.

Cost? You are looking at least $400 in wood and paint depending on the size and how fancy you make it. If you are talking a typical proscenium about 17' high and 40' wide and you put a light every 6"... that's 148 lights and another $800-$1000 in sockets, lamps, and wire. Then there's the controller I don't know how much they cost but I know they aren't cheap. Total cost for the full on pro Marquis look would easily run over $1500 IF you can get an electrician to volunteer the time to wire it. If you have to hire and electrician the price doubles.

My vote is to go for the rope light. Don't go try to find the short chunks they sell at Christmas or in the garden department and string them together this is a known fire hazard problem and I don't think you can get them to chase that far anyway. You can get a higher quality 150' continuous sections of rope light that can run a chase. A quick internet search revealed 150' of rope light and a chase controller for about $200 (I'm not sure how good the quality is on that), it's a lot less than the other project and still will look very nice. Plus, it'll be easy to install. Contact your local theater dealer or if you don't have one send a private message to CB member BillESC. I believe he sells the long chasing rope lights.

Anybody else know a source for the good rope lights? Anyone know a good brands of controllers and lights to look for?
 
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