Conventional Fixtures Scoops vs. Pars

[ship]

Got some 2Kw much less 1.5Kw HMI scoops in stock... brighter... not persay any PAR on the market. Most 14" to 18" scoops you probably have on the market are available in wattage up to 1Kw in wattage. so while 375w - not sure of the lamp used is a concept for efficiency, it certainly won’t max out a fixture unless a 10" scoop. Again not familiar with a 375w lamp for scoops unless some form of RSC based HIR lamp which would be very efficient - much like a 500w lamp.

On the sticking down below the vailances, there is heat curtains you could use with roostering up, and I somehow find it doubful that a scoop, PAR or Leko will be in any way larger in overall size than a 8" Fresnel. Just a question of how done or doing heat shielding plus perhaps scenery hoops for the drape if too close. Van has the point on proper use of the fixtures.

Still not sold on a need for a 8" PAR 64 fixture to replace an unknown size of scoop that while it might have a wider width, will have a shorter depth than a PAR when near a drape. This much is important also in consideration also when near other stuff. Not a lot of heat especially given a 375w lamp off the gel frame widest part of a say 14" scoop, this as opposed to what might be the lamp cap of a PAR 64 touching the drape given a longer fixture. Again, something one no doubt must see as opposed to understand.

 

[gafftaper]

I forgot to comment on the instruments hanging down. I'm assuming your battens and electrics are dead hung. Sometimes when this is done there are links of chain left over in the middle, that would allow you to raise or lower things a few inches. Depends on how things were installed. If not there is always the not too expensive option of buying some longer chain and lowering your masking a bit.

If your first thought was "Hey I could go down to Home Depot and get some cheap chain to do it myself." Stop you failed the test and aren't qualified to do this on your own. You need to hire a rigger to adjust things for you. If you know what safe chain for overhead lifting is (and where to get it) you are probably ok figuring this out on your own. With that we are getting to the edge of rigging advice and I will stop.

Another cheap and safe for any novice option would be to take down your boarders, remove the ties, replace them with longer lengths of line and retie them so that they hang down a little lower.

 

[lieperjp]

I forgot to comment on the instruments hanging down. I'm assuming your battens and electrics are dead hung. Sometimes when this is done there are links of chain left over in the middle, that would allow you to raise or lower things a few inches. Depends on how things were installed.

Our Battens are dead hung, our electrics are on a winch system. They are as high as they can go without the curtains providing a barn-door effect on the first electric. The current lights (scoops and fresnels) do not hang below the curtains. I have hung an S4 and it hangs about three to four inches (depending on angle) below the curtain. We have some S4 juniors in the gym, so I might see if I can pull some of those out for a few days and see what it looks like.

As for changing things up, I don't think they are going to spend any more money until they re-do everything.

 

[lieperjp]

Got some 2Kw much less 1.5Kw HMI scoops in stock... brighter... not persay any PAR on the market.

How old are they? I think, 99% sure, that these are 14-inch scoops. Also, thirty years old (roughly.) I've only replaced one bulb and that was in September, the box itself looked to be 5-7 years old. (We usually buy bulbs in large quantities and the scoops don't burn out that much, it seems.) Now I'll have to go check when I go back to school.

 

[gafftaper]

Depending on how big the place is it should only cost a hundred bucks or so for the chain to lower your teaser, valance, and boarders.

 

[derekleffew]

...and boarders.

One doesn't want low boarders; one wants high-class boarders as they tend to pay better and on time.

Theatrical draperies intended to mask horizontally are called borders.

 

[midgetgreen11]

Grammar enforcement officer on the prowl again...

 

[lieperjp]

OK, now that I'm back at school, I did a bit 'o research.

Dimmers: NSI DDS 9800, 2400 watts each.

Scoop lights: 500 watts, actually, bulbs are Sylvania but no type.

Each dimmer pack (all 10) is tied into a 40-amp circuit, which I find odd because the panel's main breaker is 225 amps and the panel itself is rated for a max of 200 amps And this was installed by a pro electrician!!!

 

[cdub260]

OK, now that I'm back at school, I did a bit 'o research.

Dimmers: NSI DDS 9800, 2400 watts each.

Scoop lights: 500 watts, actually, bulbs are Sylvania but no type.

Each dimmer pack (all 10) is tied into a 40-amp circuit, which I find odd because the panel's main breaker is 225 amps and the panel itself is rated for a max of 200 amps And this was installed by a pro electrician!!!

This is fairly standard on electrical installations. 40 amp, 3 phase breakers are what is required to power a 6 pack of 2.4k dimmers. As for why a 200 amp service is considered sufficient to power 10 of these, Article 520 of the NEC which covers most performance venues, provides some leeway in the installation of "Stage Switchboard Supply Capacity". Assuming your venue is on a 3-phase power system, your dimming capacity would actually be considered 400 amps per leg. Its generally assumed, however that a dimming system will never be operating at it's full capacity. That's why I can have a 600 amp, 3 phase service powering 176 dimmers at my venue, and its also why you can have a 200 amp, 3 phase service powering 60 dimmers. Of course, how much leeway you have varies depending on your local inspector's interpretation of the NEC.

All that having been said, if the time does come when you can upgrade your systems, you need to have someone qualified to do so, spec out the power requirements for your new systems. Its safest to assume that you are not qualified. And make sure you do not try to sneak the installation in under the nose of your local jurisdiction. While inspectors can be a royal pain at times, they can also be your greatest ally on an electrical install.

 

[thenelsontwins]

Am I the only one who thinks scoops and fresnels/pars are like apples and oranges?

They really are different species of lighting instruments and will give a much different kind of light. Fresnels and Pars are more directional and intense while a scoop is a softer flood. I would not replace, I would supplement. Scoops are very straight forward electrically, so replacing any worn sockets/whips would be very cost effective and simple. The gel thing is a good point, and it does sound like your scoops are being used for the wrong purpose. The scoops are probably best suited for fill light as opposed to key light.

I couldn't agree more. It is a very different situation. A big open faced light makes a great fill light, soft and even coverage. But the aren't as directional as a par. Scoops just kind of vomit light everywhere. BUT, they work. If your budget is small and your space limited, they can do quite a nice job in a pinch.

Pars are more directional, you have more control over where to direct the beam and so on. But they do not make a broad even wash the way scoops will. They require less gel to color them, but it seems that this is more of a light control issue.
Generally, with one scoop you light 'everything' but with one par you can light 'one thing'.

More or less.