Control/Dimming Sensor Dimmer Rack Problems

[chadillac802]

Hello,

I have a sensor dimmer rack that was installed in 1991. We are running the rack with an ETC ION 1024. Recently it's begun flashing the entire lighting system at random times. An illustration: I turn on a system of lights in the catwalks, all the lights then shut off, then about 4-7 seconds later all come back on at the same time. When I go to the rack, the CEM says Systems Ok. We recently vacuumed the rack, but the problem persists...

This problem usually happens when I turn on a whole system, the other day it happened at the end of the show in front of an audience, brought the house lights up, then they shut down, turning back on in a few seconds, the racks have not shown an error yet. No other lights in the system were on only the house lights.

Also the facilities department has recently done some work in our Fine Arts Center and I noticed the voltage on my circuits now measures around 114v with no load, could low voltage be the issue?

Thanks in advance!

 

[kevinrichie]

This sounds to me like a power issue with the rack or power supply to the rack. There are a few things that come to mind to me. You seem to only see this issue when bringing up a group of lights... so here are my thoughts.

If the rack is unbalanced... i.e. you are pulling a large load on one phase but the others are relatively empty... you may be seeing some strange behavior when you pull a lot of power.

There may be something in the CEM that is going bad, and it is having issues when you pull a lot of power.

There may be a significant voltage drop when you pull a lot of power at once (bringing up a bunch of lights at once) which is causing some part of the CEM to reset or shutdown.

These are my thoughts based on the information given... please be kind when replying that you think I'm an idiot.

 

[SteveB]

What software is the Ion running?

A recent notification from ETC warns of DMX dropout with consoles sendng from the DMX port(s) in version 1.9.8 and 1.9.9; see http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/27492-etc-advisory-eos-family-users.html .

 

[FMEng]

I doubt this is a power issue. Power issues would probably cause other symptoms besides lights going on and off. Power issues like a loose connection on a feeder or failing breaker would also cause flickering and brownouts which would worsen as more lights are added.

More likely a DMX, rack processor, or software issue.

 

[kevinrichie]

It is very possible this is a DMX issue, but I would think a DMX problem would present itself more often than just when a large volume of power is being drawn at once.

Not sure about the software bug with DMX dropping out... I would have to read more about that.

I doubt this is a power issue. Power issues would probably cause other symptoms besides lights going on and off. Power issues like a loose connection on a feeder or failing breaker would also cause flickering and brownouts which would worsen as more lights are added.

More likely a DMX, rack processor, or software issue.

 

[kevinrichie]

Also - just re-read the original post - is this only happening with circuits FOH (i.e. cove and house lights) do you notice the same issues with any circuits anywhere else? Did this issue exist before adding the Ion or only since the Ion was placed in the system? If only with the Ion, has it been ever since the Ion was installed or is it a new thing, since they messed with power from the theatre next door?

It is very possible this is a DMX issue, but I would think a DMX problem would present itself more often than just when a large volume of power is being drawn at once.

Not sure about the software bug with DMX dropping out... I would have to read more about that.

 

[DavidNorth]

Hi there,

A couple of notes and ideas....

Likely your dimmer rack was not installed 1991 as we didn't start shipping them until 1992 and only in limited quantities. If indeed your rack is that early, I would like to know the software version. Hit the reset button and it will pop up a code during the boot cycle [eg: 1.05, 2.14, 3.10]. Let me know what you see.

Now, digging a little deeper.....see how many of these cool questions you can answer....

- When the lights go out and come back on, do they just black out or do they do a fast set of intensity steps down and back up?

- You say this has happened several times when lights have been off, you turn them on, they come on, then go out followed by coming back up. Prior to you turning lights on, did you happen to have all the lights off for 15 minutes or more?

- How many racks do you have? You said one but I just want to make sure.

- When you lose lights, are there any other lights controlled by the Sensor rack that stay on?

- How often does this happen?

- If you leave the rack door open, does it still happen?

- Is your rack fan making any unusual noise?

Ok, so I asked a lot. I think you might have an airflow problem. Depending on your software version, the airflow error will either leave a message posted or not. Opening the door usually will make it go away. Post a reply and we'll go from there.

This could indeed be a DMX problem. Believe it or not, most DMX problems we have been seeing with the newer consoles is due to DMX - and Common being swapped [early systems used black heatshrink for Common which looks just like the D- wire in the dark to an installer].

There's lots we can look at easily. Looking forward to your reply.

David

 

[chadillac802]

Hi there,

A couple of notes and ideas....

Likely your dimmer rack was not installed 1991 as we didn't start shipping them until 1992 and only in limited quantities. If indeed your rack is that early, I would like to know the software version. Hit the reset button and it will pop up a code during the boot cycle [eg: 1.05, 2.14, 3.10]. Let me know what you see.

Now, digging a little deeper.....see how many of these cool questions you can answer....

- When the lights go out and come back on, do they just black out or do they do a fast set of intensity steps down and back up?

- You say this has happened several times when lights have been off, you turn them on, they come on, then go out followed by coming back up. Prior to you turning lights on, did you happen to have all the lights off for 15 minutes or more?

- How many racks do you have? You said one but I just want to make sure.

- When you lose lights, are there any other lights controlled by the Sensor rack that stay on?

- How often does this happen?

- If you leave the rack door open, does it still happen?

- Is your rack fan making any unusual noise?

Ok, so I asked a lot. I think you might have an airflow problem. Depending on your software version, the airflow error will either leave a message posted or not. Opening the door usually will make it go away. Post a reply and we'll go from there.

This could indeed be a DMX problem. Believe it or not, most DMX problems we have been seeing with the newer consoles is due to DMX - and Common being swapped [early systems used black heatshrink for Common which looks just like the D- wire in the dark to an installer].

There's lots we can look at easily. Looking forward to your reply.

David

I wasn't here back then so I know for a fact that its (2) Sensor 96 racks that were installed prior to 1995. I will post the software version of the CEM when I get back to work on Monday.

The problem is a fast fade up and down, there is a varied time of darkness but no more than a few seconds.

When the problem occurs it happens to all lights controlled by dimmer rack, usually after a period of no load, ie when I first turn on lights or after some time with all lights off.

The ION is running software version 1.9.8

The fans were not making any noise that sounded funny to me, but we recently vacuumed it out when I saw how dusty it had gotten. The problem continued after we cleaned the rack.

Thank you for your time

 

[STEVETERRY]

Also the facilities department has recently done some work in our Fine Arts Center and I noticed the voltage on my circuits now measures around 114v with no load, could low voltage be the issue?

Are you trying to measure the dimmer output with no load?

"See note 7"

Note 7: this won't work.

Put at least 100 watts in parallel with your meter (and it must be a true-RMS responding meter!) and see what you get.

ST

 

[NickGuiton]

I'm having the exact same problem with a sensor dimmer rack that is used in the field with a variety of different consoles, fixtures, and power sources. As Chad said, all of the fixtures on that dimmer black out after I bring the lights up from zero. The black out lasts maybe three or four seconds, but I have had it happen mid show on more than one oocasion. As a work around, I've resorted to leaving at least one fixture at 10-15% intensity at all times, and when I do so the black out doesn't occur. Given that I've had this happen in such a variety of different environments, I can only surmise that it's a problem with the dimmer module itself. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[DavidNorth]

I'm having the exact same problem with a sensor dimmer rack that is used in the field with a variety of different consoles, fixtures, and power sources. As Chad said, all of the fixtures on that dimmer black out after I bring the lights up from zero. The black out lasts maybe three or four seconds, but I have had it happen mid show on more than one oocasion. As a work around, I've resorted to leaving at least one fixture at 10-15% intensity at all times, and when I do so the black out doesn't occur. Given that I've had this happen in such a variety of different environments, I can only surmise that it's a problem with the dimmer module itself. Anyone have any ideas?

My guess is that you also have an airflow problem. However, I would like to know much more about your situation.

- I am assuming this is a portable pack or touring rack. CAn you tell me which size you have?
- Have you ever noticed any error essages on the CEM screen?
- Is it a CEM, CEM+ or CEM3?
- What version software are you running?
- When the lights go out and come back up during a show, do they just black out or do they step down in levels making their way to zero and then step back up to the level?

Let me know,

David