Show Design

[candyvanskids]

Hi everyone, I'm putting together a show and am looking for some help on designing the video. I've through a bunch of threads and thought it might be best to post my whole project and see what comes of it.

So:
I am running three xga projectors in a room 50'x100'. The projectors will all show the same image simultaneously all the time (one image on three projectors not one image broken up across three projectors). The projectors will be running video, PP, and Skype calls from the control booth. I have planned on using 2 or 3 laptops (Main for the PP/Video), one for Skype, and one for dvds/backup. I will also have a single confidence monitor.

My questions are these:

What kind output from my switcher do you recommend and on what cables? I was thinking of running into a DA from the switcher and then to the projectors and confidence monitor. The projectors need to be bright and clear and will likely be (2) 10k and a 15k. Because of the long (150'+) cable run I'm nervous about losing signal quality. What kind of cables should I use? VGA? Cat 5? If i use cat 5 for the projectors, can i use a vga on the confidence monitor?

Someone recommended stacking the projectors to do two 5ks and two 8-10ks to backup the 10 and 15 respectively. Thoughts? I dont know the riggers and dont know how clean they can get the layered image and i have a short load in time.

Can anyone help?

 

[ruinexplorer]

Welcome to the Booth!

Since you have a variety of signals as inputs, your switcher will also need to be a scaler so that you have a consistent output to your projectors. Then you will want to use a DA after the switcher. Now, you will get the same signal to the confidence monitor as you are to the projectors in the same resolution, so make sure that the monitor can display this without a problem (probably a non-issue). 150' of analog signal will probably work. Personally, I would be using a 5-wire cable (RGBHV) with a D-Sub 15 (VGA) adapter if necessary instead of using Cat-5 (with associated baluns) in this instance. This is assuming that your projectors and confidence monitor are not located near each other at all. I would cable it different if the displays were relatively close together, but a distance away from the source.

The reason for having the secondary projectors is in case the primary should fail. You would have your back-up running, just with the douser closed. Then if the main fails, you simply open the shutter on the back-up for a slightly dimmer image, but it is still there. You don't have to have perfect alignment in this case since you would only see one at a time and there is no blending. Just figure that you have to double the time that you would normally have for focus.

So, in order to help you better, are you renting all of the gear? Are you front projecting or rear projecting? How far apart are your projectors? Is XGA a high enough resoulution for you? Do you need to run video from FOH, or can you run it from off-stage? The more you can offer about your intents, the better we can help you realize your goal.

 

[candyvanskids]

I am running the all front projection show from a booth I'l share with audio in the back of the space. We're renting everything to run across 3 days so I have to keep an eye on costs. XGA will be high enough resolution because most of what we'll show will be PPs and conference video not film quality work. We'll also be using skype which I've never known to be so clear anyway.

The projectors are being rigged from I-Beams about 25' apart. The 10k will be projecting into the back of the space and the two smaller projectors will be on the sides. Any suggestions you can give for rigging to I-beams would also be great. I have only the simplest idea of how that works. There is clearance over top of the beams to throw lines.

What else can I tell you? I'm happy to give as much info as possible and appreciate all your help.

 

[ruinexplorer]

Here's the trick, you are running signal to the projectors which won't be anywhere near your confidence monitor. Is there any cabling installed in this space, or do you have to run it all yourself? What is the distance from the booth to the center projector? Most switcher/scaler units will have more than one output that you can use at a time (though they put out the same resolution signal). You could possibly amplify the signal to the confidence monitor on its own and then have a home run towards the center projector, putting the DA closer to the projectors, thus having shorter runs from the DA to each projector. Do you know what kind of power is available near your intended projector placement?

We cannot discuss too much in the way of rigging here on this forum. We don't know your space/equipment and it would be extremely dangerous to provide a how-to. What I can say is that the shop where you intend to rent the gear from will likely have the appropriate hanging hardware necessary and you should have no problem finding a qualified rigger in your area to properly install the projectors.

 

[candyvanskids]

There is no cabling installed in the space so I'll be running fresh lines throughout.

The booth-center projector run is about 150'. I'm worried about losing signal quality to it. Are you suggesting running from the switcher in the booth to the confidence monitor and running a line to a da that can handle 3 projectors from the switcher and putting that da somewhere between the projectors? Should i be nervous about having connections so far away from the booth and unavailable during the conference? Is the benefit running one vga to the da and then three shorter ones to the projectors?

The space has 3 220amp boxes. The box I'll run out of uses the same bus as the lighting dimmer switches so i'll have to clean the power some I imagine. Suggestions on best ways to do that?

Thanks again for working this out with me.

 

[ruinexplorer]

If you are sharing power with the lighting, on the same leg, you will likely run into hum bars on an analog signal. This can be eliminated with a humbucker, or you could go with digital signal, which is less susceptible to that noise.

I often would run a single line up to my projectors with the DA nearest to the center projector, and then split the signal. The benefit is that you then use close to identical length cables out of the DA to have a more uniform signal. The switcher/scaler is generally sending an amplified signal, which run over RGBHV does not generally have much loss (this of course all depends on the specific equipment). Once you verify your signal, you should not need to worry about the cables going bad while in the air. Obviously if the DA were to fail, you would lose signal to all of your projectors, but the same would happen if it were right next to you.

With a digital signal, you have less to worry about with video hum, but more to worry about length of run. Generally, if you are going to run such low resolution, you can stick with an analog signal, but if you can't get a hum-bucker, then you will need to isolate your power.

Speaking of power issues, since you mention running video and skype from the laptop, how do you plan on distributing sound? Sound from a laptop can be challenging to say the least. This thread will get you prepared for that.

 

[Ouchmyretinas]

I've used a pair of Extron VGA to Cat5 dongles to send video for runs of 200+ ft at both a sports bar and an outdoor stage without a hint of signal loss. The only time it got fuzzy was when the ethernet cable was temporarily wrapped around the 200 amps of feeder behind one stage. I tend to prefer running Cat 5 simply because its light, cheap, and relatively simple to terminate with the right tools.

 

[ruinexplorer]

I agree that using Ethernet cable with baluns will also make the riggers happy. If you decide to go this route, the major concern is skew. Read this thread to learn more about dealing with this issue.

It may or may not save you some money on your rental package. It will be easier to deal with for your long runs.

 

[museav]

If you are renting everything then you may also want to talk with your provider. They may offer a switcher/signal distribution/projector package that could not only save you money over getting the pieces individually but also put the onus for it all working together on them rather than on you.

The space has 3 220amp boxes. The box I'll run out of uses the same bus as the lighting dimmer switches so i'll have to clean the power some I imagine.

Can you clarify this? Is that 220A for each 110V phase, one phase per box? Or is it maybe 220V power?

You might also want to verify what the projectors require as it sounds like you could have a mix of 110VAC and 220VAC projectors.