Strand being Stupid, driving away loyal customers

[gafftaper]

Well, it appears I've been "Stranded". I have a Strand Palette VL that came with two universes. It's 5 years old. I'm expanding my inventory with more and more LED fixtures and I need to add a few more DMX universes to match. I was hoping to buy four more universes. One of the sales pitches back in the day from Strand was always that it's easy to upgrade, we can just send you a dongle to unlock more channels.

I contacted my local dealer who called Strand for a quote for the upgrade. His price to me would be about $325 for 50 Channels and they ONLY sell channel upgrades in groups of 50. When you throw in the sales tax it'll be nearly $3,600 to add ONE Universe. That's INSANE! I can buy a 4 universe Cognito 2 for that! But I want to add four universes. So I'm looking at $14,000 to upgrade. I can get a MUCH better console for that with a lot more universes on board. The Strand Palette VL is perfectly capable of handling more universes. I can't imagine it taking them more than about 20 minutes to plug a dongle in a computer, set up a new system that has more universes in it, and then throw it in the mail. It would probably take longer to address the envelope and throw it in the mail than it would take to setup the dongle. It's an opportunity for Strand to print free money.

My sales guy talked to two different people at Strand about it and was given two excuses, one was that it's a 10 year old discontinued product line so it costs more to update the software now. Lie. It's just a dongle unlocking more features it doesn't cost $3,500 to unlock a universe. The other excuse was that when they created the Palette product line 10 years ago they were selling to lots of schools and churches that had small budgets and so they a lot of new systems with 100 channels for a 96 dimmer rack. As a result they only sold upgrades 50 channels at a time. Now that everyone can afford LED's and movers, they apparently don't care and are still selling upgrades 50 channels at a time.

I really like the Palette VL and was hoping to bridge the gap between it and need to upgrade to something more concert lighting focused, by adding a few more universes to my existing system. Well that's apparently not going to happen because Strand has no interest in keeping loyal customers or making free money selling upgrades that cost them nothing. Stupid Stupid Stupid Strand.

Will the next console be ETC, Avo, Hog, MA, Chamsys? I'm not sure, but I definitely know it won't be Strand. Don't get Strand-ed!

 

[Amiers]

That sucks. Maybe call Strand yourself and go higher up the food chain. I wonder if they can only fit 50 Channels per dongle and you would have to plug in 40+ dongles to unlock each set of 50

But yeah, loading up VL software and typing Unlock 1024 - 3072 and throwing it in the mail seems pretty easy.

 

[gafftaper]

That sucks. Maybe call Strand yourself and go higher up the food chain. I wonder if they can only fit 50 Channels per dongle and you would have to plug in 40+ dongles to unlock each set of 50 But yeah, loading up VL software and typing Unlock 1024 - 3072 and throwing it in the mail seems pretty easy.

The owner of my local dealership is now trying to contact someone higher up the food chain for me. If that doesn't happen I'll give them the angry customer call and see what they say. They are such a giant faceless entity these days, I find it doubtful anyone there actually has the authority to make a rational decision.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

This is a complicated issue, based on who developed the software and who owns it now and perhaps someone not crossing the Is and dotting the Ts when things were bought and sold. Suffice it to say, in terms of what you want, Strand is a reseller and has to buy it from a competitor at their price.

And I hope I'm not betraying a confidence.

 

[techieman33]

Legacy support has been a problem with Strand for a long time. It's the same with parts for fixtures, last time I was looking for a couple small parts for an SL we were told that they couldn't do anything to help us without a $500 minimum order. And that's if they could even find the parts to sell us.

 

[MikeJ]

Now is as good a time as any to take this opportunity to jump ship, and get something better, and get a user experience that looks newer than 1987.

You are at a High school theater, right?
As much as I'm not a huge ETC fan, it might be the right choice, if you want students to learn a console that is used extensively in the theater field.
As much as I AM an MA2 fan, It's probably not the best choice. It comes at a very steep price, is WAY overkill, and has a learning curve that is far too steep for the casual user, but it is pretty much the standard for anything outside of actual theatre.
Dot2 might strike a very nice balance. Its (relatively) inexpensive, has a similar workflow to MA2, but with a streamlined UI, and its easy enough to learn in just a day, even by just following the onscreen guide. It is a very capable desk, Comes with 4,096 channels, though I think it only has 4 dmx outputs, so you would need an artnet/acn node to use the other 4. Dot2 is very theater friendly, with the programmer using similar commands to ETC when doing a theater stack show, but also having a robust programmer, that is very visual. The screens are pretty small though, having at least 1 external(preferably touch) is recommended

HOG- Skip all the toy desks distributed by elation, the price is not that much cheaper than getting a RoadHog. Probably running into the learning curve problem again, also not used much in theater, and not nearly as widely used as MA2, or maybe even AVO, in other production settings.

Avo...I have not used a modern AVO very much, but the Quartz looks like a neat little desk. I am unsure of the learning curve, and I know AVO classic was awful for theater type shows, but apparently Titan is a much more versatile and mature software. The whole line of AVO desks seems to have an Identity crisis with two big desks, and two small desks, that don't seem to be very different from eachother, while Killing/removing the Pearl from the product like, even though it historically was their most popular desk.

Chamsys- Its cheap and powerful, medium learning curve, but looks like leftover parts and software from the HogII factory.

Martin M6/2/go/ Worth a look. Inexpensive, powerful, modular. Not really as common as most desks, and a medium learning curve.


I don't think the comments about Strand being a Giant Faceless entity are true. I think they are a formerly giant, now floundering, subsidiary of a subsidiary(Philips>Varilite>strand/selecon). And the entire division has been for sale for quite some time, with no interested buyers, while producing pretty mediocre new products. Also, I never liked any of their desks.

 

[irked]

I can't remember the last time I heard a positive story involving interactions with Strand or whoever owns them this week.

It's a shame.

 

[techieman33]

Now is as good a time as any to take this opportunity to jump ship, and get something better, and get a user experience that looks newer than 1987.


Avo...I have not used a modern AVO very much, but the Quartz looks like a neat little desk. I am unsure of the learning curve, and I know AVO classic was awful for theater type shows, but apparently Titan is a much more versatile and mature software. The whole line of AVO desks seems to have an Identity crisis with two big desks, and two small desks, that don't seem to be very different from eachother, while Killing/removing the Pearl from the product like, even though it historically was their most popular desk.

The cue stacks are much improved over the classic software, it's not at the level of the EOS line, but it has improved a lot. It's plenty powerful enough for a high school program. I think that the built in visualizer would be a big bonus in an educational setting as well. I'm also pretty sure you could still get a pearl if you really wanted one, to the best of my knowledge they will still make you a 2010 running classic as well. They just aren't advertising it. As someone who runs a Pearl Expert I can't really recommend running one over one of the newer consoles.

 

[MikeJ]

I just thought it was odd that, initially they added the touch wing to the pearl, which was kind of a stop-gap, and then basically dropped the heart of the product line, rather than bringing it more into the modern fold. But whats the deal with the Arena? I cannot tell if the arena or the Sapphire is supposed to be the flagship. And if the flagship is the Sapphire, why not brand the Arena as the new pearl? It seems like odd marketing. At least its not so confusing like a year ago, when there was the Arena, Sapphire touch, like 3 versions of the pearl, the Tiger, titan Mobile, and Quartz.

 

[FMEng]

Legacy support has been a problem with Strand for a long time. It's the same with parts for fixtures, last time I was looking for a couple small parts for an SL we were told that they couldn't do anything to help us without a $500 minimum order. And that's if they could even find the parts to sell us.

That's very true. Apparently, Strand doesn't pay attention to how their biggest competitor does business. Or they'd rather slash support costs to win bids on price. As a current care taker of a bunch of Stranded equipment, I won't recommend them again. Another once great company ruined by bean counters and conglomerate owners.

 

[techieman33]

I just thought it was odd that, initially they added the touch wing to the pearl, which was kind of a stop-gap, and then basically dropped the heart of the product line, rather than bringing it more into the modern fold. But whats the deal with the Arena? I cannot tell if the arena or the Sapphire is supposed to be the flagship. And if the flagship is the Sapphire, why not brand the Arena as the new pearl? It seems like odd marketing. At least its not so confusing like a year ago, when there was the Arena, Sapphire touch, like 3 versions of the pearl, the Tiger, titan Mobile, and Quartz.

The Sapphire is the flagship and the Arena is taking the Pearls place. I agree that it is a little weird that the Arena didn't get named Pearl since it's pretty obvious is was designed to take the Pearls place. I think all the options are nice since they software is the same all you are really doing is choosing the interface you want to use to program and run the show.

 

[Footer]

Give Bobby Harrel a call or step up to a larger strand re-seller like Grandstage or Vincent. Both of those companies have contacts that go really deep at Strand... if they can't get it done no one can. No reason to throw this desk out.... they should be able to do this for you pretty cheap.

 

[VRommel]

This is a complicated issue, based on who developed the software and who owns it now and perhaps someone not crossing the Is and dotting the Ts when things were bought and sold. Suffice it to say, in terms of what you want, Strand is a reseller and has to buy it from a competitor at their price.

And I hope I'm not betraying a confidence.

Hi Bill:

Good Morning!

The software in question is owned by Pathway Connectivity a division of Acuity Brands Lighting Canada which is in turn a wholly-owned subsidiary of Acuity Brands Lighting. We also own the Horizon and Marquee software platforms and - obviously - the Choreo/Cognito2 "ecosystem".

I can assure you that since the day (February 2011) Acuity Brands acquired Horizon Control and a new licensing Agreement was adopted, Philips Strand's costs have not been raised nor have any limitations been imposed on Philips Strand with respect to how they price and distribute the Palette OS. Accordingly, they are entirely within their rights to license the software and give it away; or, charge a market rate; or, charge whatever they think the market will bear.

Whatever has happened here is solely the result of a sales and marketing decision made by Philips Strand Lighting and this has nothing whatsover with any actions or directives handed down to Philips Strand Lighting by Pathway Connectivity. That would have been impossible as we have not, would not and won't hand down sales and marketing directives to Philips Strand Lighting.

Do we intend to compete with Philips Strand Lighting? Absolutely! They can count on it, as can the other professional lighting control providers in the marketplace. In the end, the users will benefit because competition fosters innovation.

Best Regards,
Pathway Connectivity


Van Rommel
Director Business Development

 

[Amiers]

So you own the software and the ability to sell the upgrades?

So it goes Customer Retailer Strand Pathway.

No wonder the price is 325 a 50 to many fingers in the pot.

If I were you Van I would make up a business model and lay out a real plan for Strand to sell it properly and get a kickback for every upgrade sold. Build an incentive program for them to keep their products alive. Especially if it is just owned by fat cat looking to boost their quarterly profits.

 

[VRommel]

So you own the software and the ability to sell the upgrades?

So it goes Customer Retailer Strand Pathway.

No wonder the price is 325 a 50 to many fingers in the pot.

If I were you Van I would make up a business model and lay out a real plan for Strand to sell it properly and get a kickback for every upgrade sold. Build an incentive program for them to keep their products alive. Especially if it is just owned by fat cat looking to boost their quarterly profits.

Amiers:

Good Morning! Yes, we own the software and yes there is a pricing agreement in place with Philips Strand that has not been revised for over five years and for which there are no plans to revise the terms. Read that to mean that we are not going to impose a price increase on Philips Strand.

I think that you may have misunderstood what I posted. To clarify, "retail" pricing and distribution policy is solely up to Philips Strand. They own the name "Palette" and, accordingly, we have no ability - and thus no business plan - to sell Palette upgrades directly to the market or to tell Philips Strand how to sell Palette upgrades.

Best Regards,
Pathway Connectivity


Van Rommel
Director Business Development

 

[microstar]

So you own the software and the ability to sell the upgrades?

So it goes Customer Retailer Strand Pathway.

No wonder the price is 325 a 50 to many fingers in the pot.

If I were you Van I would make up a business model and lay out a real plan for Strand to sell it properly and get a kickback for every upgrade sold. Build an incentive program for them to keep their products alive. Especially if it is just owned by fat cat looking to boost their quarterly profits.

Pathway just said they wouldn't hand down sales or marketing directives to Strand. Unless it is exclusively licensed to Strand, since Pathway OWNS the software, why couldn't they sell Palette upgrades direct or thru their dealers?

 

[VRommel]

Pathway just said they wouldn't hand down sales or marketing directives to Strand. Unless it is exclusively licensed to Strand, since Pathway OWNS the software, why couldn't they sell Palette upgrades direct or thru their dealers?

Hi Microstar:

We cannot do as you propose because we do not own the Palette trade name.

We do own the Horizon and Marquee trade names and so we do sell upgrades for those products through our dealer network.

Best Regards,
Pathway Connectivity


Van Rommel
Director Business Development

 

[EdSavoie]

OK so, we've established that pathway isn't what's causing strand to be expensive, strand is causing strand to be expensive. Question is why, and can a reasonable solution be hammered out, right?

 

[JD]

Best example of why the free market rules!
Companies get stuck in a "way" of doing business as the rest of the world moves forward. (Think Ma-Bell rotary phone.)
When a company ignores the needs of it's customers or their products/upgrades pricing becomes abusive, then that company has a "monopoly" mindset, knowing they have trapped customers.
It is that point when customers have the option of leaving that company in the dust bin of history.

 

[EdSavoie]

Best example of why the free market rules!
Companies get stuck in a "way" of doing business as the rest of the world moves forward. (Think Ma-Bell rotary phone.)
When a company ignores the needs of it's customers or their products/upgrades pricing becomes abusive, then that company has a "monopoly" mindset, knowing they have trapped customers.
It is that point when customers have the option of leaving that company in the dust bin of history.

I wonder if a version of the software stripped of all the palette branding could be made, akin to Johnson systems refit kit for CD80 dimmer packs and CPU