Structural Pipe Fittings

[Taniith]

Our front of house hanging positions are steel pipes threaded into standard plumbing elbows and flanges and bolted to the building's beams (see pictures). They've been up there for who knows how many decades.

Recently, the threads on one of these failed during a light hang, such that the weight of the fixtures was able to very slowly spin the pipe forward inside the two elbows. We've stopped using it until we get around to replacing it, but I'm wondering if anyone has experience with the so-called "structural" pipe fittings (like this http://bmisupply.com/ProductDetail/053002G8 and this https://www.easyfit.com/catalog/category/easyfit_fittings ? If the set-screws are properly torqued, would those be sufficient? Cutting pipe is easy enough, but it would be great if we don't have to deal with threading it.

Their tables seem to suggest that they're designed for far more than we'll ever put on them (https://www.easyfit.com/resources/beam_load_table_pounds), but it never hurts to get a sanity check.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Threaded fittings bad, indeed. I know there will be some who disagree, but I prefer the rota-lock for this application. Its rated stronger than the pipe. You may want to "pin" them if you fear loosening and slipping, but it doesn't bother me. Overheads, use a torque wrench to be sure its tight enough.

You might check the manufacturer's page for the speedrail / nurail fitting data: http://www.hollaender.com/

 

[Taniith]

Threaded fittings bad, indeed. I know there will be some who disagree, but I prefer the rota-lock for this application. Its rated stronger than the pipe. You may want to "pin" them if you fear loosening and slipping, but it doesn't bother me. Overheads, use a torque wrench to be sure its tight enough.

You might check the manufacturer's page for the speedrail / nurail fitting data: http://www.hollaender.com/

By rota-lock, you mean these? http://www.rosebrand.com/product428/Rota-Pipe-Lock.aspx

Do you mean attach the verticals to the beam with a normal flange, and use those to attach the horizontal?

 

[RonHebbard]

Threaded fittings bad, indeed. I know there will be some who disagree, but I prefer the rota-lock for this application. Its rated stronger than the pipe. You may want to "pin" them if you fear loosening and slipping, but it doesn't bother me. Overheads, use a torque wrench to be sure its tight enough.

You might check the manufacturer's page for the speedrail / nurail fitting data: http://www.hollaender.com/

And there's also Kee brand and their Canadian competitor whose name I can't think of at the moment.
Both highly recommended affordable and normally stocked in depth. They're both holding up many lamps in my area.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[theatricalmatt]

If you can't weld it, why not epoxy it?

 

[soundlight]

I get the set screw pipe fittings offered by Fastenal - they're "EquipRite", it's their house brand (see if this link works). Larger set screws than other brands which I like, and they're less expensive. I've used their tee fittings to hold 80lb movers without the pipe rotating - on top of a vertical pipe with a short horizontal. Admittedly, I did lay in to the set screw before using them in this application.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

By rota-lock, you mean these? http://www.rosebrand.com/product428/Rota-Pipe-Lock.aspx

Do you mean attach the verticals to the beam with a normal flange, and use those to attach the horizontal?

Yes. Available from a lot of dealers. Not sure who makes them now - use to be Upright Scaffold Company made these.

And yes, you still need a flange. Hard to beat having a plate welded to the end of a piece of pipe. I believe some of the rigging companies will also sell a plate with inside sleeve. But the nu-rail/speed-rail is good if under. I would not want to use it for a hanger, where gravity is pulling it out of the flange.

 

[RonHebbard]

Yes. Available from a lot of dealers. Not sure who makes them now - use to be Upright Scaffold Company made these.

And yes, you still need a flange. Hard to beat having a plate welded to the end of a piece of pipe. I believe some of the rigging companies will also sell a plate with inside sleeve. But the nu-rail/speed-rail is good if under. I would not want to use it for a hanger, where gravity is pulling it out of the flange.

In my neighborhood we've quite a number of the thread-less / set-screw Kee brand flanges bolted to the lower chords of open-truss beams then about 4" of 1-1/2" schedule 40 into set-screw horizontal tee's supporting 1-1/2" schedule 40 hanging pipes. The oldest in my area have been in place since 1953 without a single failure. I can remember worrying about pull-out but I've gotten over it with complete confidence.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Taniith]

Looks like there's a Fastenal store next door to where our TD works his day-job, and as @soundlight says, the price looks good. We'll probably go with that.

Thanks for the input, all!

 

[soundlight]

Looks like there's a Fastenal store next door to where our TD works his day-job, and as @soundlight says, the price looks good. We'll probably go with that.

They don't stock them in store so you'll need to order ahead of time - they usually show up in 2 days.

 

[Malabaristo]

In my neighborhood we've quite a number of the thread-less / set-screw Kee brand flanges bolted to the lower chords of open-truss beams then about 4" of 1-1/2" schedule 40 into set-screw horizontal tee's supporting 1-1/2" schedule 40 hanging pipes. The oldest in my area have been in place since 1953 without a single failure. I can remember worrying about pull-out but I've gotten over it with complete confidence.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

Any idea whether they used some variety of locktite/thread-locker on the set screws? Any chance someone periodically checks and tightens them? I have to admit to being a little surprised that none of them have come loose over time due to vibration and whatnot. I suppose there's an argument to be made that the set screw essentially turns into a jam nut if you tighten it enough to deform the threads a little...

 

[RonHebbard]

Any idea whether they used some variety of locktite/thread-locker on the set screws? Any chance someone periodically checks and tightens them? I have to admit to being a little surprised that none of them have come loose over time due to vibration and whatnot. I suppose there's an argument to be made that the set screw essentially turns into a jam nut if you tighten it enough to deform the threads a little...

No, no Loc-Tite what so ever. The person who originally installed the units back in 1953 has a serious Loc-Tite fetish but even he went without any liquid lockers. He used loc-washers on the bolts affixing the flanges to the beams but that was it. I lit my first production in their theater in 1986 and had a 5/16" Allan bit on my 3/8" drive ratchet. I routinely checked the set screws while I was hanging but I don't recall ever finding any loose. The first production I lit in their venue used 86 fixtures, 43 on 3 of their then 4 FOH pipes and 43 on their stage electrics. Prior to my blindness I lit three or four productions per year in their venue and NEVER found the slightest hint of any of their fittings ever becoming loose. All of their fittings were KEE brand. The fellow with the Loc-Tite fetish also had a Kee fetish / obsession. Initially I had concerns about pull-out but I learned to get over them.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.