The Best of the Worst Lights

[Kurt]

I'm wondering who has done any extensive testing of Chinese par fixtures on the low end. I'm looking to purchase some for personal use when I'm in spaces where I only have dimmers and want some degree of color control. Does anyone have any leads on the "better" Chinese fixtures?

Before answering

I am fully aware of the reliability of Chinese fixtures. I am buying them with the mindset that they will be barely functional junk

I have a background in repairs, so I would like to find fixtures that are either cheap enough that I can buy some extras for spare parts, or fixtures that have enough support staff behind the company that I can get someone on the other end who can sell me a part if need be.

3 pin is expected and okay. They will be converted to 5 pin

 

[Amiers]

What’s is your per fixture price point?

 

[Kurt]

What’s is your per fixture price point?

I'd like to keep it under $50 a unit. I'm shooting for quantity to compensate for output

 

[Amiers]

There is no best of the worst when it comes from China at that price point.

These looked nice.

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60253...=a2706.7843667/c.1998817009.31.56e1798eQ8JcPn

And they are a 4 year approved vendor. Take PayPal and 3-5 day delivery. So they might have a shop/warehouse state side.

 

[JD]

Chinese PARs, like all PARs, are basically an empty can. Thinner, usually made from aluminum. I have a bunch and they work OK although I made the following modification:
Removed the socket, sugar cube, and cord and replaced them with a one-piece socket with 36" whip. Fiberglass sleeve, ground wire, proper strain relief, and add the plug you desire. My cost worked out to be $28 for the can plus $15 for the upgrade parts, or $43 total each.
Still more fragile, but it you are going to use them yourself and take care of them, they will probably be fine. Of course, this doesn't account for what your labor is worth, nor will the unit be a listed unit (which it most likely was not in the first place.) Think I spent about 20 minutes on each.

EDIT: "3 pin is expected and okay. They will be converted to 5 pin"
Ahhh... that doesn't sound like a PAR can running off a dimmer. A DMX based LED PAR is a different animal. Don't plug those into a dimmer!

 

[Amiers]

Chinese PARs, like all PARs, are basically an empty can. Thinner, usually made from aluminum. I have a bunch and they work OK although I made the following modification:
Removed the socket, sugar cube, and cord and replaced them with a one-piece socket with 36" whip. Fiberglass sleeve, ground wire, proper strain relief, and add the plug you desire. My cost worked out to be $28 for the can plus $15 for the upgrade parts, or $43 total each.
Still more fragile, but it you are going to use them yourself and take care of them, they will probably be fine. Of course, this doesn't account for what your labor is worth, nor will the unit be a listed unit (which it most likely was not in the first place.) Think I spent about 20 minutes on each.

EDIT: "3 pin is expected and okay. They will be converted to 5 pin"
Ahhh... that doesn't sound like a PAR can running off a dimmer. A DMX based LED PAR is a different animal.

This too. You weren’t completely clear if you wanted LED or conventional.

 

[gafftaper]

"Made in China"- is not a brand. There is a huge advantage to buying a real brand name even in DJ quality products. Chauvet DJ, Blizzard, and American DJ care about their reputation. Yeah they cost a little more than than random products found on ebay or Alibaba, but the Brand name means two important things. 1) The product will work when you receive it. 2) There will be some warranty (it may not be huge, but there will be something). With random Chinese made stuff there's no guarantee that you aren't just throwing your money away.

"Made in China"- is not a dealership. Who you buy through matters. At least buy from Amazon, Guitar Center, your local theater shop, or a major online dealer. Real companies cost a little more, but again they care about their reputation and have return policies.

Finally I suggest you drop @BillESC a private message here and get his phone number to give him a call. He's a good reliable dealer. I've purchased a lot of stuff from him over the years. My experience is Bill really seems to know how to get maximum bang for the buck and knows exactly where the line is between Chinese garbage and low priced lighting that isn't amazing, but will be okay.

 

[BillESC]

Thanks Gaff.

Kurt,

ProX in Brooklyn offers the Fusion RGBAW par offering 36 - 1w diodes (8 each red, green, blue, amber and 6 white) These will be substantially brighter and more versatile than $ 50 direct imports.

Here's the spec's.


Description


The Xstatic Fusion RGBWA is a PAR36 fixture, engineered and designed in the USA for uplighting and stage effect. This light fixture will bring color and excitement to any event. With a high-impact plastic housing that allows for a super lightweight profile (under 4 lbs) but with large scale results, producing 3761 LUX at 6 feet.

The X-PAR36 36 LEDs - 8 x Red, 8 x Green, 8 x Blue, 6 x Amber, and 6 x White, mounted on a 7" face offering smooth Color Mixing with a 25 Degree Beam Angle. It has 3 operational modes (including DMX, Sound Active Mode & Auto Run Mode), and has 8 DMX-512 Channel modes for a variety of programming options. This fixture is plug & play with built-in programs.

Included with each fixture is an IEC Male to Edison daisy-chain adaptor allowing the operation of 10 lights in a string from one 15A outlet. A Wireless IR Remote Control is also included.


Features

• 36 LEDs - 8 x Red, 8 x Green, 8 x Blue, 6 x White, and 6 x Amber
• 7" diameter face.
• 3761LUX @2 meter
• Auto, Sound, DMX512 control w/ 8 channels
• Power consumption: 30 W/100 VA
  

Dimensions
8.50"L x 9.00"W x 10.00"H
Weight: 3.70 lbs

Shipping Dimensions
12.00"L x 12.00"D x 6.50"H
Weight: 4.70 lbs

 

[gafftaper]

ProX in Brooklyn offers the Fusion RGBAW par offering 36 - 1w diodes (8 each red, green, blue, amber and 6 white) These will be substantially brighter and more versatile than $ 50 direct imports.

Looking around I see prices listed around $115 each. That's a lot of firepower for the price.

Bill Always knows how to find products that are reasonably priced but not "cheap"

 

[Kurt]

This is all wonderful. Thank you everyone for all the help!

 

[gafftaper]

One other note your local dealer may have a "house brand" of Chinese LED they carry. It may be a little more expensive, but it's a great route to go because you are supporting local business and their repair shop is going to make a good effort of keeping that particular brand of cheap LED going, because they are responsible for selling them to you. So check your local shops too.

 

[TNasty]

Hooo boy, this stuff is right up my alley. I'll put together some of my notes tomorrow. I've always been interested in actually comparing cheap import units... It is kinda the wild west out there considering nobody does reviews of any help on these units.

 

[TimMc]

Hooo boy, this stuff is right up my alley. I'll put together some of my notes tomorrow. I've always been interested in actually comparing cheap import units... It is kinda the wild west out there considering nobody does reviews of any help on these units.

As manager of a shop that purchased "direct from China (via L.A. warehouse).... no matter what the SKU or model number, every subsequent re-order of the same item will look and possibly work differently from your first order. Been there, done that, didn't want the t-shirt.

When one purchases a name-brand unit in the USA/Canada/EuroZone, (s)he's buying consistency and support. Yes, that comes at a price. The perceived savings from cheap stuff vanishes when you realize that you can't repair them for less than replacement and replacement means they don't have the same color profile as your existing units... and that means replacing your inventory with new cheap stuff and selling off your 2 year old inventory. Our shop sold off enough non-matching LED "pars" to light almost every local band in the county. Even American DJ, the low end Chauvet or Blizzard fixtures will be fairly consistent until the SKU is EOL'd.

My experience with cheap LED lights has been to order 20% spares, and when you're down to your last spare unit start putting a full replacement in your next budget cycle. Sell off the old units or donate them to another group that can use them.

 

[tyler.martin]

Hooo boy, this stuff is right up my alley. I'll put together some of my notes tomorrow. I've always been interested in actually comparing cheap import units... It is kinda the wild west out there considering nobody does reviews of any help on these units.

Once upon a time, I ordered a demo unit of a fixture from AliBaba that was a specific size for theatre set piece. I spent $115 on the first fixture. I tore it to pieces and found some serious issues (lack of high voltage internal grounding, no fusing or current limiting) I then pointed these issues out to the manufacturer, they actually opened a dialog to talk about improvements to make the fixtures work in a theatre environment, and managed a significant improvement on the dimming curve. They sent me an updated demo (for free) and once It was ok, I ordered 60 of them, and as far as I know the theatre company is still using them!

 

[TNasty]

@TimMc Yup, pretty aware of the varying quality, issues, and photometrics. Honestly if you're buying these cheap lights, it's sort of a given that you expect to replace the units down the line anyways. I bought my first cheap lights just so I had something I could do some basic DMX testing on, and then my movers are simply placeholders until I can put together the money for something more decent (although likely used, but I'm fine with that- I've got a pair of OptiPAR's that are basically replacements for the cheapo PARs I have, but I'll use everything while it lasts).

@tyler.martin I might take a look into doing a teardown and taking some notes. Partly for the chance of a freebie, but also so I can find what might fail/cause issues. Just gotta fix an Intimidator I've got on the healing bench for a flickering LED first. I best not be mixing up the parts, even though I do have the 350 pretty well figured out now.

 

[benthecat]

A little while ago, I bought the cheapest LED PAR I could. I spent about $15 on it, it is very similar to some American DJ Led mega par plus fixtures I’ve used before. I bought it primarily to play with, and taking it apart it would be pretty easy to make it run off of 12v. At some point I might play with making it run wireless and hide it in a set piece.

However, I’ve never used it and am a little scared of connecting it to a console or other fixtures because of the lack of isolation in the power supply.

Most of the internal components would be decently easy to interchange: separate power supply, control, and led PCBs. But I don’t think I’d use this fixture for much more than as some sort of special occasionally.

I can post some pictures of the insides when I get back home on Saturday or Sunday.

 

[taneglaus]

I've been where you are. I work with a high school theater troupe who's auditorium was very old and under 'technicalized". 2 electrical batons for the stage and a 3rd for the back wall wash. Plus portholes above the house. They had 6" fresnels @ 300w each on the 2 batons & 18" scoops on the 3rd for back wall wash. Trying to add more than 1 color on the stage was impossible. I came across an eBay deal for buy 1 get 1 free of the Chinese LED Par's but what got me was 9 LEDs @ 20w each and RGBAW+Uv. The deal ment the unit price was $50. I brought those in to this auditorium just to see how they'd do.

The school asked me to put together a bid to replace the fresnels with these LED Par cans. The school district has an initiative to switch over to all LED lighting in their buildings so changing to LEDs in the auditorium was in line with that initiative. The school gave me a $5k budget including 2 follow spots...

I decided to put 10 of the LED PAR's on each pipe. The maintenance guys added 3 new 20amp circuit drops from above the stage by each of the 3 batons. The stage does not have a fly system. I daisey chained the power along the baton to the 10 LED PAR's.

I had already added a couple truss pipes on the house side walls with 6- 1kw Leko's per side for better front lighting and had added a DMX distribution box at that time, both 5 & 3 pin I/O (along with 2x6channel dimmer packs). I ran another DMX signal line from the distro box to the stage and Daisey chained the led's with the 3-pin control signal.

It works well. The 'cheap' led PAR's are plenty bright. The Uv is a nice touch with a high school around Halloween.

That system has been running for 2+ years with no issues. The only problems are each can has a fan and when 30 are running over your head it's noticeable...mostly to me. No one has mentioned it to me. They only notice the fan noise when I point it out. AND the dimmer curve for the blue, and only the blue color, isn't smooth like you'd expect. When dimming up The blue color suddenly jumps on @ about 40% power...and suddenly cuts off when dimming down. The other colors dimming curve is normal.

The auditorium has an old but patcheable DMX console. The conventional dimmers/lights use DMX channels 1-72, then I added 12 more dimmers/1kw Leko's, channels 73-84, and the house lights use 86-92. The old fresnels are still there and can be used for specials. I left DMX channels 92-199 open for custom use, then gave each of the LED PAR's a unique address in 10 channel groups (each can uses 7 channels) starting with 200, then the next can starts at 210, then 230, 240, etc. this gives max flexibility...but added time when initially patching.

If I were to do this again I'd eval more instruments looking at brightness, fan noise, color options, and smooth dimming curves. Then put together a good argument to the school district president to up the budget. As it was, I spent $1500 on the 30 led PAR's and $1500 for 2-follow Spotlights, leaving $2k for my labor.

 

[taneglaus]

Forgot to mention that I couldn't find the led PAR's on eBay as noted. Best price was the American DJ 36 led PAR's but these are not very bright.

 

[kendal69]

I am one of the first people to bring LED lights into the U.S.A. from China. I was told by all the "pro's"when I first brought in the 1 watt led that these lights would never last and these "led things were never going to make it" . I explained to these "pro's" that you can throw away you gels and use one light instead of 4 for color changes - they seemed to get it. Today "EVERYTHING" is LED. Remember those 1 watt led's, I just donated them to a school theater department after being abused for nearly 20 years. Now for the "junk" part of your remark. Nearly every light fixture, along with cars, trucks, tractors, airplanes etc. has Chinese part sin them sooooo. Have I received dead fixtures right out of the box - you betcha I have, but I have also received dead fixtures from every major company including the big brand name companies. I bring in lights by the pallet load and all I do is contact the manufacturer and the quickly air express me new fixtures, so not really a problem. I've ordered fixtures on a Wednesday from China and they are at my doorstop on Friday at times better shipping than Amazon. While people here are paying 3K for a moving light I pay $300.00. Think about this for a minute. In order to make any money on my 3K light if I rent that light for 10% of cost then I need to rent it 10 times before I make a dime. With the Chinese lights the first day I rent that light I made my money back, and the next nine times I rent that light I put $2,700 in my pocket. Let's talk warranty. I am my own warranty department. At the price of ten cents on the dollar I just purchase more lights and toss out or keep for parts any failures. Some manufacturers do give me a year warranty and have honored that, others ship me a box of extra parts, so I can do my own repairs with fresh parts. Are there GOOD and BAD manufacturers, sure just like every manufacturer on the planet. I remember the early days of LED I brought my light into Martin lighting in Los Angeles to see if they had a lighting counsole that could control my "cheap Chinese Junk" lights. They hooked up my light and make is do things I never thought possible. They asked where I got it, I told them where and the price and I think I saw a tear in their eye's. They just could not get their heads around the price I paid for the brightness and about of color my light produced. I purchased the M1 because of what the board could do with my lights. As far as reliability, I'm in the event business, so my lights get ABUSED by my set up crew and I’ve been using everything from battery operated LED pars to regular pars, light bars, movers etc and every light takes the abuse. Last story. I had a VIP customer call me at 5PM to light a palm tree grove by 6PM that night. I was having dinner, I put down my fork went out there with 24 battery operated lights and finished the job in 10 minutes. I charged them $85.00 per light rental plus $350.00 trucking labor and they were happy to pay and I gained a customer all because of "cheap Chinese lights"