The FOH mix

[jrbcjim]

Here's a question about the blend of instruments and voice in the FOH speakers. I've got seven mic'd actors singing and speaking on stage as well as a couple of acoustic instruments. Some in the company are questioning the need to mic the instruments, saying they are loud enough to be heard in the house (300 seats) without amplification. That may well be true, but I'm concerned with the directionality of the sound and the audio image as much as audibility. If, during a song, the actors voices are "seen" to be coming from the stage as well as the FOH clusters (high in the proscenium, extreme SL and SR), should the instruments not also seem to be coming from the same source?

For that reason, I'm wanting to cut some of the instruments into the vocal mix and present it all through the FOH speakers for balance and image more than volume. Is this something I should be worrying about?

 

[TimmyP1955]

I'd leave the instruments out to start with. Put something in only if it cannot be heard. (The actors' mics will likely pick up enough of the instruments to move the image.)

 

[hsaunier]

First of all, you should do what makes the director happy. Second, if you would like to experiment during a rehearsal, perhaps then the director and you can make an informed decision about the mix. Explain to the director what you intend to do and ask if he/she would like to listen to the difference. It could be that the director has a very clear image in their mind about how the show should sound, and be presented.

 

[jkowtko]

Welcome to the world of sound! The one position everyone either questions is it needed, or thinks they can do it too. It can be an uphill battle ...

I agree with you, more balanced sound is better than less balanced sound, both in terms of volume and imaging. Unless your intent is something different.

We have a very small community theater mainstage area (45x65 feet including the audience seating) so the level of direct sound is huge, making it an even trickier task to balance things out. And of course whenever I mention "micing the band" people freak out, thinking I'm looking for night club volumes. They aren't understanding the concept of balance.

I guess I can say the same thing about lighting -- sure mood lighting looks "cool", but just turn on the house lights and run the play ... who would know the difference ??

As Hugh mentions, work with the director to figure out what kind of sound he/she wants. However if they are open-minded, then yes, ask if they will allow you to try to a few variations of sound reinforcement during tech so they can hear the difference. A simple "faders on, faders off" demonstration will let them understand what you are trying to do.

 

[spiwak2005]

Will the vocalists be able to hear the acoustic instruments while singing? You may need to setup monitors for the vocalists which means you'll have to mic the instruments. Explain to the director that you want to have this option available and as mentioned below you can let them judge the differences - with or without monitors, with or without FOH.

 

[jrbcjim]

We're working with a harp and a grand piano -- go ahead and guess what show we're doing -- and they are both on stage, though upstage of the acting area. I don't believe hearing the instruments will be a problem for the actors. The musicians will need monitors, so I'm mounting a pzm mic on the edge of the stage apron and running it through the board and then back to the stage for monitors.

In keeping with my life philosophy -- it's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission -- I'll mic the band and then give the director a before-and-after demonstration. I'll be easier to take the mics away later than install them during levels.

 

[BNBSound]

A PZM and a stage monitor sounds like a recipe for disaster. Unless you've got some serious chops with the EQs you're in for a lot of squeal. Myself, I would go with close micing the instruments as a first choice, and possibly even with dynamic mics before I grabbed any condensers.

If, like you say, there is likely to be a lot of natural sound from the instruments in the house, you won't need to load them up heavily in the mix. In fact, just the additional volume from the monitor may surprise you. In rock venues it's not uncommon to turn off FOH and find that you still have over 100dB coming from the wedges! Not that your situation is likely to be that extreme but you get the idea.

 

[museav]

If, like you say, there is likely to be a lot of natural sound from the instruments in the house, you won't need to load them up heavily in the mix. In fact, just the additional volume from the monitor may surprise you. In rock venues it's not uncommon to turn off FOH and find that you still have over 100dB coming from the wedges! Not that your situation is likely to be that extreme but you get the idea.

Anyone who has done live sound for any time has run into this. I've had multiple occasions where a musician turned their amp on stage up so loud that I ended up trying to mix everything else for the house around the direct sound from their amp.

This may be where some understanding of psychoacoustics would help. First, because our ears are on either side of our heads, people tend to discriminate the location of sound sources much more int he horizontal plane and much less vertically. Also, we tend to localize based on the first sound heard, processing that as being the direct sound. So it may not be as much of an issue as feared and may actually help people perceive the stage as being the actual source.

Will the vocalists be able to hear the acoustic instruments while singing? You may need to setup monitors for the vocalists which means you'll have to mic the instruments. Explain to the director that you want to have this option available and as mentioned below you can let them judge the differences - with or without monitors, with or without FOH.

If the instruments are loud enough in the house when there is singing then unless the instruments are directional they would seem likely to be loud enough for the actors and not require any stage reinforcement.

 

[mstaylor]

I did a corperate event earlier this year where the only instruments were a piano and an electric guitar. After a couple of songs the guitar player disconnected from the system saying he could control volume better through his amp. I just sgrugged and said it was their show. He goes to play again and he starts telling me to turn him up.