Theatre Manager Won't Let Me Move Ion

[Jbum123]

If you know your lighting plot, you don't need to see the fixtures.
You should know where they are hung and where they are focused via the plot.

You are asking to move over 7K of gear just because you can't see the lighting fixture. If you drop it, are you going to pay for the repair?
With it being publicly owned equipment, its hard enough to get approval to upgrade a system. Repair of a newly installed system due to damage from a student would not go over well.

I deal with this all the time as an installer. Use the laptop/desktop remote option. It's easy.

 

[Judge]

That lighting desk is there to do a job, or specifically to enable the LD to do her/his job. And that is best done from the house on a tech table so that you can see your instruments and talk to the director and cast. This is the ways its done normally and I have worked on and been present at a lot of dance and theatre shows. Jeez, people tour LX desks. Its hardly an issue moving it around in the building is it?

 

[Thomas Johnston]

I Totally Agree But he is firm about it and will not let me…. I wish I could and I agree with all the points made

 

[DuckJordan]

Judge, when you are talking a professional crew with a budget that includes a rental desk which can be replaced with very little hassle, versus a desk that is an install in a school that likely had to put aside money for 20 years to enable the purchase of the desk (not a rental) and could not easily afford a replacement. It makes sense why it shouldn't be moved at all by students. I honestly rarely trust crew that I work with on a daily basis to move the console outside of its case more than 3 foot.

 

[KT the TD]

That lighting desk is there to do a job, or specifically to enable the LD to do her/his job. And that is best done from the house on a tech table so that you can see your instruments and talk to the director and cast. This is the ways its done normally and I have worked on and been present at a lot of dance and theatre shows. Jeez, people tour LX desks. Its hardly an issue moving it around in the building is it?

That's the difference between rental theater and high school theater. Even at my old highschool that was a rental theater we only moved it for the events that had million dollar isurance and it happend only if the show was run from that vantage point as well. I think once a year? Twice maybe. It's not that far of a stretch to say no. IMO.

 

[TheaterEd]

Its hardly an issue moving it around in the building is it?

Yes.... It is...
As a high school auditorium manager, I can tell you that it would be a very high stress situation for me to move my brand new ION into the house. First of all Issues in transit. There are many wires that can get caught while carrying things, and IF something falls and breaks, it is my neck on the chopping block. Secondly, once the desk is out in the house, it is open to any of the risks that technology in a high school is susceptible to. Actors playing tag, students looking for a place to 'study', directors cup of coffee. Then you have to look at other auditorium users. How many meetings do my guidance councilors schedule in the auditorium per year? Dozens. And they don't care what we have going on either. Now I suddenly have a last minute junior class meeting in the auditorium at 7:00 tomorrow morning and I have a light board just sitting out in the open.

How about the fact that over 25 people have keys to the auditorium and only 4 of them are in the fine arts department.... 5 people in the entire district have keys to my booth, and only two of us know that we do. Me, and the day time custodian. At least three times a week I find an unlocked auditorium door. I have NEVER found my booth door unlocked.

Something happens to the desk and this person could LITERALLY lose their job. Crazier things have happened, and it is not too hard to find someone who believes they are qualified to replace you. Would I risk my ability to provide for my family so that a student's job could be a little easier? Nope.

This is not even addressing the fact that Thomas's TD may have no clue as to how the board is connected and how it all works. It's BRAND NEW, and a HS TD has a lot more on their plate than taking the time to learn how to disassemble and reassemble their Lighting board.

Thomas, I respect where you are coming from, but the benefit will never outweigh the risk in this situation. This is my 7th year as a HS Auditorium Manager and I program EVERY show either from the booth, or over headset to a board op. Learn your plot, learn how to call commands, find someone who knows how to read and train them on how to program. It will start slow, but once you find a rhythm you will be fine.

 

[icewolf08]

That lighting desk is there to do a job, or specifically to enable the LD to do her/his job. And that is best done from the house on a tech table so that you can see your instruments and talk to the director and cast.

I still don't understand this need to "see" the instruments.... Lighting a show, be it high school, community theatre or professional is not about what the actual fixtures look like. A designer should be designing the light on the stage and actors. Most of the time lighting fixtures are not intended to be seen. Who cares what the instrument looks like as long as the light coming out the front does what you want it to do?

Yes, in many, if not most, professional and even college theatres the show is they from a position in the house, it doesn't mean it can't be done from elsewhere. If you are in a school and your teacher says no, the best you can do is present the reasons for your argument in a calm, clear way, and if the answer is still no, move on.

 

[JChenault]

This thread seems to be confusing design and programming.

The lighting looks different depending on where you are in the house. So the designer needs to be able to be in the house, and move around to see what things are looking like,

The person programming does not want to be in the house. Ideally he can see the stage, but he wants to be in a place where he can most easily operate and program the console.

The designer may need to 'see the lights' to make sure there is not some stray light or distraction from the rig.

So to the OP. Do you have a board op/electrician? Headsets? If so put a monitor on an audience desk desk so you can see levels, and be a designer not a board OP. Tell your operator what you want him to do. This is the way things work in the real world.

If you don't have a board OP, and this is an educational institution, find someone and train him/her.

If you have to both program and design, you do what is possible in your venue. But this is not what you really want to do.


To the HS tech directors and auditorium managers out there who are flinching at moving the console. How do yo feel about an audience desk, remote monitor, and headset?

 

[TheaterEd]

To the HS tech directors and auditorium managers out there who are flinching at moving the console. How do yo feel about an audience desk, remote monitor, and headset?

I Love the idea and plan to try this for the next show so I can monitor key strokes. I've always just called it out, but hadn't thought of running a laptop to keep an eye on my board op. Should greatly reduce my trips from stage to booth.

 

[StradivariusBone]

To the HS tech directors and auditorium managers out there who are flinching at moving the console. How do yo feel about an audience desk, remote monitor, and headset?

That's what we do now actually. Originally when it was the Express console, they had a big desk they'd pull out and place it right on the bottom of the grand tier, dead center of the house to program the show. The board would live there for a few days and then be moved back up once tech week started. We recently upgraded to LightFactory and now I can summon cues, submasters, et al from my phone and iPad. Another guy I know uses a VPN to move his whole desktop down to the stage and uses it that way. The setup we've got now with the Light Factory PC being fed by the Express for handles is way too labor intensive to relocate for programming/design, but with the wireless capability, there's never a real need to do that.

 

[AudJ]

To the HS tech directors and auditorium managers out there who are flinching at moving the console. How do yo feel about an audience desk, remote monitor, and headset?

Exactly what I do with my Middle School kids. I have moved the board myself on occasion, but would never let students move it, ever. The touch-screen ELO monitor alone would break my budget for a decade.

Usually we call up on the headset to a student programmer. You would be surprised what kids can do. To the OP, I get it, you have good reasons - you sound like you would probably be fine, but you are not the only variable. The first time your own child asks for the car keys, you will see it a little differently.

 

[ssellers]

Reading these comments made my anxiety raise to new heights...

Thomas, your theatre manager is either lazy or not a real lighting designer... perhaps both.

Every tour (bway, concert, dance show) that comes through my venue ALWAYS runs their show from the house! And my booth, while elevated, is still in a decent spot. The Ion is a computer. If you can take a computer apart you can take the Ion apart. AND it's also well built! It's not an egg that will break easily. I have my students (9th through 12th) move it all the time (and my M7 for that matter) I let them know that they are transporting $16k worth of equipment and ill kill them if they drop it. And i dont send my moron students (all of us in education have them) up to bring it down. I'm sorry for your situation.

 

[chausman]

Reading these comments made my anxiety raise to new heights...

Thomas, your theatre manager is either lazy or not a real lighting designer... perhaps both.

Every tour (bway, concert, dance show) that comes through my venue ALWAYS runs their show from the house! And my booth, while elevated, is still in a decent spot. The Ion is a computer. If you can take a computer apart you can take the Ion apart. AND it's also well built! It's not an egg that will break easily. I have my students (9th through 12th) move it all the time (and my M7 for that matter) I let them know that they are transporting $16k worth of equipment and ill kill them if they drop it. And i dont send my moron students (all of us in education have them) up to bring it down. I'm sorry for your situation.

Tours also have the budget and means to handle breaking something, and hopefully multiple competent people who can move expensive equipment around. High schools rarely get one, let alone both of those things. Not to say anything bad about the OP. Besides, anyone can produce something good given ideal circumstances. It's the ability to work around inconveniences that's valuable later on. And having another student on coms to program is an excellent way to introduce someone to the lighting world. It's also much harder to be king of the booth if you're literally forced to work together.

If you're in a position to easily move expensive, generally difficult to replace equipment then that's awesome for you. But that doesn't mean that those who can't or won't are lazy or "not real lighting designers".

 

[Les]

I agree with the others who say that since this is an educational setting, use it as an opportunity to educate a new board op. This is the perfect chance. If only one student is capable of programming the board, then the tech theatre program is failing in that regard.

Also, think of it from an educator's perspective. While you are not personally liable for that console, someone is, and their head will be on the chopping block if something happens to it.

 

[JVTD]

As a HS Tech Director I wouldn't let my students move the light consoles around without me being there. Also Do you have a clear view of the stage from your booth? Forget being able to see your lights that's what accurate paperwork is for. My student LD or I usually sit in the house on headset and have another student programing. Educational theatre is about opportunities after all. With that being said there has been several shows where I do move the board to the house if I have a year without enough tech students. The key word is I move the board, and my students move the Monitors/keyboard/mouse/cables. I just don't want to explain to an administrator why I let students drop our expensive light board. If you don't have a good programer available to you I recommend teaching them the basics, get your base/simple cues recorded. Then go back and teach him/her how to do the more complicated stuff.

Above all use this as a learning moment. What if you work in a theatre that has a terrible view from the booth and has no other place to put the light board? Its better to learn how to communicate what you want done than to just be used to doing it all yourself. Also don't develop that annoying habit of hovering over your programer, unless they deserve it.

 

[de27192]

I simply cannot believe that people are sat here actually advocating doing LX over comms as a matter of preference. What are you smoking??? To say that sitting out front with your desk in the auditorium during programming and rehearsals is anything other than commonplace is just factually wrong.

No matter how good you're plot is, it's a simple fact that being closer to the stage and able to hear everything which is going on is advantageous. It's a simple phenomenon which is not new to anyone.

I appreciate that school theatre staff have their own unique challenges. That's fine. But maybe you should spend more time in a professional theatre before telling your students how and why things are done in them.

 

[DuckJordan]

I simply cannot believe that people are sat here actually advocating doing LX over comms as a matter of preference. What are you smoking??? To say that sitting out front with your desk in the auditorium during programming and rehearsals is anything other than commonplace is just factually wrong.

No matter how good you're plot is, it's a simple fact that being closer to the stage and able to hear everything which is going on is advantageous. It's a simple phenomenon which is not new to anyone.

I appreciate that school theatre staff have their own unique challenges. That's fine. But maybe you should spend more time in a professional theatre before telling your students how and why things are done in them.

After being a part of several Broadway tour builds I can tell you that what you claim as common place is far from it. Most often a designer makes tweeks to the show through the assistant who also tells the programmer what to do. A "true LD" never even sees the console much less uses it.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

 

[de27192]

We will have to agree to disagree... After significantly more than 'several' I can tell you we ALWAYS have the board out front.

As for the people saying it will get damaged... do you not keep the original shipping carton? If it's good enough to get it from the factory, on a truck to your distributor, then on a van to your theatre, and then into the control room... I think it will be good enough to get you from the control room to the auditorium. If your kids give less of a proverbial than the delivery guys then you've got extremely unmotivated kids.

 

[MNicolai]

I appreciate that school theatre staff have their own unique challenges. That's fine. But maybe you should spend more time in a professional theatre before telling your students how and why things are done in them.

After being a part of several Broadway tour builds I can tell you that what you claim as common place is far from it. Most often a designer makes tweeks to the show through the assistant who also tells the programmer what to do. A "true LD" never even sees the console much less uses it.

Regardless of the advantages or disadvantages of placing the console in the audience versus the control booth, it is an excellent way to teach someone new how to use a lighting console to call out key commands and let them bumble around trying to find the keys you want them to press. It's a little slow going at first, but it helps them learn their way around the console. After they learn how to turn some stuff on and off and navigate around, they'll get much much more out of an hour-long training session on the more in-depth features than if you tried to teach them the entire console in one fell swoop.

Doesn't have to be during programming. Could just as easily be during focus. But comparing professional theater to educational theater is like trying to compare Nascar to your daily commute. Some people are doing it as a business and are fully equipped with trained, competent people and are a part of an operation that keeps moving like a well-oiled machine. Other people are stuck in traffic just trying to get from one place to another, using what's at their disposal to get by in the time they have allotted.

There are many different tiers of theater, and many different kinds of designers and programmers. To say any one particular niche is the ideal that all should look toward is naive. I can run a load-in like it's Broadway, but that'll get me a cancelled run of shows if I ignore that my load-in crew is made of high schoolers who are very capable, but also very inexperienced and lacking familiarity with what it takes to have a smooth load-in. Gotta tailor your process to your specific application.

 

[JChenault]

I simply cannot believe that people are sat here actually advocating doing LX over comms as a matter of preference. What are you smoking??? To say that sitting out front with your desk in the auditorium during programming and rehearsals is anything other than commonplace is just factually wrong.

No matter how good you're plot is, it's a simple fact that being closer to the stage and able to hear everything which is going on is advantageous. It's a simple phenomenon which is not new to anyone.

I appreciate that school theatre staff have their own unique challenges. That's fine. But maybe you should spend more time in a professional theatre before telling your students how and why things are done in them.

I strongly disagree with you on this. The lighting designers job ( IMHO) is to use his eyes to see what is going on on the stage, not to punch buttons or fiddle with faders. In the best of all possible worlds, I ( as a designer) should not have to look down at paperwork ( because I know the plot and have used good names for all of my fixtures and groups). I might have to look at a monitor showing levels of all my channels ( IE Richard Pilbro's use of the Virtual Magic Sheet ) I certainly don't want to take my eyes off the stage to see what buttons I am pushing. When I take my eyes from the stage and look at a monitor or a desk, when I look back, the change in intensity affects what I see for several minutes. When I look down, I can't see what is going on on the stage, etc.


Every broadway show I have ever been able to see during techs, every Lort theatre I have aver observed during tech week, every smaller equity company I have watched when cueing - the designer is in the house, at his own desk - and the programmer is either in the booth, or at another desk in the house ( only seen a few times where there are lots of movers). I have never seen the lighting designer touch the console.

Programming the board is not the job of the lighting designer in the theatre world. Ok - for busking and rock and roll it does make sense to combine the two, but with a fixed cue list it is not the preferred way of working.


Now - if you are in a small venue with limited manpower, and you have to perform as both the programmer and the lighting designer - you can best function with the board in the house - but this is NOT the preferred way to do things.