Unsafe Cable?

[BillConnerFASTC]

Ahhh, for the days when every instrument had a 2' pigtail with male split pin . . .

And just two pins, not three. I don't know how to say this politically correctly in these times but spent a part of summer drilling holes in the female stage pin plugs so we could use the new fixtures and new jumpers with three pin plugs. Oh my.

 

[ship]

Using a power outlet connector as a power inlet connector is about as grave an error as you can make.

Possible consequences:

Live power inlet pins on devices or cables.

Apparently disconnected strings of equipment still being live.

A single power string energised by two (potentially out-of-phase) supplies.

It is serious statement. Any suggestion that such a cable could considered safe is completely outrageous.

I differ in it being a defined outlet connector. (Might be wrong on that - verify.) I fully realize what you present and agree with it up to feed thru to the point of power in. Someone trying to power it up thru both outlets/inlets and than also not having an open outlet to power up/feed thru to other fixtures is not going to have a open outlet/inlet. Above not on topic of original adaptor question.

We are projecting that someone is plugging in the same fixture twice and have no feed thru options extended to the person plugging in this fixture twice that one might also project needs to plug in other fixtures also.

So is the Gray Powercon defined as a outlet connector I suppose is the primary question in debate? If not defined as a outlet, the Powercon is safe and Blue/Gray is not best practice to use and feed thru but not in reverse something to go to jail in use of.

 

[TimMc]

My final post on this topic (there was great rejoicing throughout the land)...

If used consistent with common practice, this cable is dangerous and a violation of Code. Electrical Code is not a criminal statute so nobody will go to jail for using it if there are no injuries or property damage. Willfully using this in a way that hurts or kills people or starts a fire is *potentially* a prosecutable offense regardless of Code compliance, too.

Do people use things like this? Sure, under controlled conditions with employees/technicians who fully understand the implications. We have a couple of AC mains 'adapters' that never leave our shop; they are used to support testing and repairs but are not in our general cable inventory and are marked "shop use only."

As for whether or not the gray Powercon is "defined as an outlet connector" I cannot say definitively, only that I've NEVER seen them used any other way. Never, ever, never on an UL listed device have I observed gray Powercon used as an inlet, not even on the cheap Chinese crap that comes through with local and regional bands and flat broke theatre companies.

Regardless of how the connector is defined, the USE is what determines much of liability and I see nothing about this product that makes it "safe" if you put it in the hands of the typical C list stage hand, church or community theatre volunteer.

Here endeth the reading, go in pieces.

 

[Lyle Williams]

Neutrik define the input/output roles:

http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/powercon/powercon-20-a/

 

[STEVETERRY]

Is it just me, or does this seem unsafe...... Widowmaker anyone?

https://www.pnta.com/lighting/cable...WVzzvt_yAnoPVzt7MaAiXQEALw_wcB&ad=46078768737

Not only is this cable unsafe, but it violates section 520.67 of the NEC (underscore added for clarity):

520.67 Multipole Branch-Circuit Cable Connectors. Multipole
branch-circuit cable connectors, male and female, for flexible
conductors shall be constructed so that tension on the cord or
cable is not transmitted to the connections. The female half
shall be attached to the load end of the power supply cord or
cable. The connector shall be rated in amperes and designed
so that differently rated devices cannot be connected together;
however, a 20-ampere T-slot receptacle shall be permitted to
accept a 15-ampere attachment plug of the same voltage rating.
Alternating-current multipole connectors shall be polarized
and comply with 406.7 and 406.10.

ST

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

The description is male to female. I guess it proves s picture is worth a 1000 words, even photoshopped ones.

 

[ship]

I stand corrected on being an outlet connector defined. Thanks.

 

[DELO72]

>>I disagree, Ship. If the Powercon is plugged into its normal mating connector there will be full mains AC voltage on the *exposed* pins of the Bates connector.>>

I'm with SHIP on this one. It's absolutely WRONG, but not unsafe persay in the "Suicide connector" category for two reasons that Ship already stated- 1) The Bates @P&G connector is the end that is GETTING the power, so they will never be exposed in use. POWERCON is a downstream FIXTURE connector, not something you would find attached to wall or service power 99% of the time-- unless you were connecting to another Powercon cable that was serving as a jumper perhaps, and if that was the case, there is no way you'd then be going Powercon BACK to 2P&G.

2) Male to male cords are considered suicide cables because the connectors are exposed-- which is just not the case in this example, which is why Ship is arguing that the term doesn't apply. Wrong connector- yes. Suicidal and with high risk of injury? No.

 

[TheaterEd]

>>unless you were connecting to another Powercon cable that was serving as a jumper perhaps, and if that was the case, there is no way you'd then be going Powercon BACK to 2P&G.

I work in educational theater, and I can assure you that students WILL plug in whatever cable is laying around if they think its supposed to be plugged in. I can 100% see a scenario where the kid plugging in the last LED in the chain has an open port on his light and thinks to himself "Everyone else's light has all it's plugs full, what should I stick in mine? Oh here's a power cable for it." He then plugs the cable into the fixture and has a live male end in his hand. If he was on a ladder at the time, the live end may even be in his mouth ( again, stupid high school kid. surely we professionals would never put a cord in our mouths....).

Plug in cable + get zapped by cable + die = suicide cable.

I'm not saying there is any reason to do this on purpose, but in the community theater and educational theater world I see a lot of things being done that there is no reason to do.

 

[kendal69]

Calm down, it's used to power ONE new style fixture to old-style stage pin, nothing can go wrong, no one will die, nothing will explode. I guarantee people all over the country are using bad cracked overused and word extension cords and no one is crying about that. I've seen a lot worse. At one event someone connected a 20 amp plus to a 50 amp breaker, the people plugging in lights just kept plugging in lights because the circuit was "handling it". Sometime during the event, the entire extension cord melted and turned to liquid the breaker never did trip before the grabbed the smoking cord and yanked it out of the connection, but the cord was smoking on the lawn. Luckily the event was outside

 

[TheaterEd]

it's used to power ONE new style fixture

Not really. Its a grey connector which in power-con land means its an out. You plug this into one of my LEDs and if you've already plugged in the stage pin end then you fry the fixture, if you already plugged in the LED string then you have an electrified live wire in your hand and if you touch it, you're in for a shock.

nothing can go wrong

I feel like there is no situation in which I would ever use this phrase....

 

[Lyle Williams]

Being able to imagine ONE scenario where the suicide cable isn't deadly does not make it safe.

Providing an example of different crazy and dangerous behaviour also doesn't make the suicide cable safe.

Maybe if I throw in a few annecdotes about drink driving, that'll make them safe?

 

[Ben Stiegler]

While we are at it, BOLO for this bad audio hack which can be fatal to equipment:

Recently working at an outdoor multistage venue staffed by many years of volunteers, I encountered a dual banana plug to male XLR3 cable. Hmm ... why? It was explained that since there was a shortage of speaker cable sometimes, this allowed using extra mic cables to power speakers. Very logical, very bad. The cable and it’s sisters are no more. Same venue had lengths of 12/2 jacketed cable with 3 conductor Edison plugs and receptacles being used for outdoor power distribution. Yikes! Venue declined to commit to a safety program, so I’m not working there any more.

 

[RonHebbard]

While we are at it, BOLO for this bad audio hack which can be fatal to equipment:

Recently working at an outdoor multistage venue staffed by many years of volunteers, I encountered a dual banana plug to male XLR3 cable. Hmm ... why? It was explained that since there was a shortage of speaker cable sometimes, this allowed using extra mic cables to power speakers. Very logical, very bad. The cable and it’s sisters are no more. Same venue had lengths of 12/2 jacketed cable with 3 conductor Edison plugs and receptacles being used for outdoor power distribution. Yikes! Venue declined to commit to a safety program, so I’m not working there any more.

@Ben Stiegler If you're old enough, you may recall when you purchased Shure's "accessory adapter" kit for their original M67 mixer, one of the included adapters was XLR3 to 20 Amp twist-lock in an era when 20 Amp two and / or 3 conductor twist-locks were popular low impedance speaker connectors in the NYC area. SanFransisco, do you know Michael 'Bink' Knowles or anyone at the opera?
Welcome to Control Booth, there are worse places to be.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[TJCornish]

Calm down, it's used to power ONE new style fixture to old-style stage pin, nothing can go wrong, no one will die, nothing will explode. I guarantee people all over the country are using bad cracked overused and word extension cords and no one is crying about that. I've seen a lot worse. At one event someone connected a 20 amp plus to a 50 amp breaker, the people plugging in lights just kept plugging in lights because the circuit was "handling it". Sometime during the event, the entire extension cord melted and turned to liquid the breaker never did trip before the grabbed the smoking cord and yanked it out of the connection, but the cord was smoking on the lawn. Luckily the event was outside

I'm not a big fan of using the standard of "well, one time I saw something worse than this, so what's the big deal?" for my work.

There are some (but not very many) grey areas in power distribution where interesting adapters can be justified; this situation is just a screwup - someone bought the wrong color Powercon, either as a goof, or because they didn't understand the color code. It's an easy mistake to make the first time when working with Powercon, but is an equally easy $5 fix.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

- someone bought the wrong color Powercon, either as a goof, or because they didn't understand the color code

I don't think they bought it, just photoshopped it wrong. Kind of a virtual suicide cable.

 

[Ben Stiegler]

@Ben Stiegler If you're old enough, you may recall when you purchased Shure's "accessory adapter" kit for their original M67 mixer, one of the included adapters was XLR3 to 20 Amp twist-lock in an era when 20 Amp two and / or 3 conductor twist-locks were popular low impedance speaker connectors in the NYC area. SanFransisco, do you know Michael 'Bink' Knowles or anyone at the opera?
Welcome to Control Booth, there are worse places to be.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

I remember those as speaker connectors in my jr high school. I was fortunate to be a field test QA. Intern at Shure when in high school 69-73 ... also recordist for Northwestern Graduate School of music recitals and the A1 for my high school. We brashly organized the first Midwest HiFi show in 1970 to fundraise for a student radio station, and we got Paul Klipsch (with a huge truck of demo gear) and Robert Moog (smaller truck) as presenters. I was awed and inspired. I know Doug von Koss (retired props master) at the opera ... would love to meet MBK if you can introduce us!

 

[DavidJones]

( again, stupid high school kid. surely we professionals would never put a cord in our mouths....).

.

Nope, most of those kids stay that stupid. Then they grow up, become "professionals" and comment on this very Control Booth thread.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

And just two pins, not three. I don't know how to say this politically correctly in these times but spent a part of summer drilling holes in the female stage pin plugs so we could use the new fixtures and new jumpers with three pin plugs. Oh my.

Why buy a 2P&G ground lift when you can just drill a hole? I have one.....somewhere.

I used a male 2P asbestos lead plug to make myself a test light, its a conversation piece.

 

[Ben Stiegler]

You know what happens to all those forlorn electrons that get stuck in the hole with nowhere to go, right?

They get the blues,
Take a cruise, and sometimes
Come out of your shoes

(Sorry ... I’m on synthetic opioids following exciting bone fusion surgery last weekend ... mind traveling strange paths. I promise not to climb any ladders or rewire any power connections til I’m back to earth, biochemically. )