Use of strobes as risk to audience?
- Thread starterjneveaux
- Start date
Here is a take from somebody who has experienced seizures. Very often the precipitating factors are not well known. My seizures stemmed from a large subdural hematoma last summer. As a result of this and the subsequent surgeries I began experiencing partial seizures -- affecting speech, hand or facial muscles -- instead of the more widespread tonic clonic type. Mine was only a temporary condition but I had about 300+ seizures over the course of 7 weeks. I will still be taking anti-convulsant medication for the next year or so.
The cause of mine is thought to be from the blood touching the brain. It is such an irritant that seizures are very common. During my treatment I underwent numerous EEGs. During these they tried to induce a seizure while I was awake and while I was sleeping. One of the techniques they used was to vary the rate of a strobe. They typically continued a particular rate for 20 seconds or more. They tried the strobe both when I had my eyes open and when they were closed. They never were able to induce one via the strobes.
A fairly small percentage of people with epilespy are photosensitive. Of the estimated 2 million people in the US with epilepsy only 3-5% are. The triggering frequencies tend to be in the 5-30 flashes per seconds. They typically are told to avoid frequencies greater than 3 per second. Other factors include % of field of vision and color. More information can be found here Shedding Light on Photosensitivity, One of Epilepsy’s Most Complex Conditions : Epilepsy.com/Professionals. The web site Epilepsy and seizure information for patients and health professionals | epilepsy.com is full of information.
Sometimes people experience an "aura" -- a distinctive feeling that can come in many forms. For some people these auras give them time to prepare for a seizure. Often the most dangerous aspect of a seizure is the potential for serious injury if the person loses control of their motor functions. I do not take any particular personal precautions related to strobes. If I experience an aura as a precursor I will look away and more than likely kill the strobe. I agree posting at the entrance to the venue is vital. Additionally, I tend to limit the duration of higher frequency strobes that encompass a large portion of the visible area to no more than 20 seconds.
The cause of mine is thought to be from the blood touching the brain. It is such an irritant that seizures are very common. During my treatment I underwent numerous EEGs. During these they tried to induce a seizure while I was awake and while I was sleeping. One of the techniques they used was to vary the rate of a strobe. They typically continued a particular rate for 20 seconds or more. They tried the strobe both when I had my eyes open and when they were closed. They never were able to induce one via the strobes.
A fairly small percentage of people with epilespy are photosensitive. Of the estimated 2 million people in the US with epilepsy only 3-5% are. The triggering frequencies tend to be in the 5-30 flashes per seconds. They typically are told to avoid frequencies greater than 3 per second. Other factors include % of field of vision and color. More information can be found here Shedding Light on Photosensitivity, One of Epilepsy’s Most Complex Conditions : Epilepsy.com/Professionals. The web site Epilepsy and seizure information for patients and health professionals | epilepsy.com is full of information.
Sometimes people experience an "aura" -- a distinctive feeling that can come in many forms. For some people these auras give them time to prepare for a seizure. Often the most dangerous aspect of a seizure is the potential for serious injury if the person loses control of their motor functions. I do not take any particular personal precautions related to strobes. If I experience an aura as a precursor I will look away and more than likely kill the strobe. I agree posting at the entrance to the venue is vital. Additionally, I tend to limit the duration of higher frequency strobes that encompass a large portion of the visible area to no more than 20 seconds.
renegadeblack
Active Member
wolfman005
Active Member
This topic has been covered before as far as theaters go, but I am wondering if I need to post warning about strobes when I DJ for Homecomings and Proms. I don't post warnings about fog/haze. Should I post about them as well? I was thinking that when going to a dance, most people know that there will be flashy lights, but I'm not sure if that would keep me safe on the legal side.
I do realize this forum is for theater, but the DJ forum I'm a member of have a "if it looks cool do it" attitude and I'd like a professional opinion.
Thanks for your time! -Aaron
I do realize this forum is for theater, but the DJ forum I'm a member of have a "if it looks cool do it" attitude and I'd like a professional opinion.
Thanks for your time! -Aaron
Les
Well-Known Member
Though you may feel that you are stating the obvious, I absolutely feel that you should post advisories to "flashing lights and fog effects" at your events since they can carry the same risks as theatrical effects, and the participants are often the same. It definitely can't hurt anything to be extra cautious. Some people may have breathing problems, so I would mention the fog since you'd be making a sign anyway.
As for theatrical shows, if I had epilepsy triggered by strobe effects and was not warned of the use of the effects and subsequently experienced a seizure as a result, I would definitely be upset and I might even pursue legal recourse if my damages justified it. We have to be sensitive to the fact that some people have legitimate health conditions that can be negatively impacted as a result of some effects we use, so we must exercise due diligence in making sure those attendees are properly warned. I don't feel like this is in the same class as the infamous "hot coffee" lawsuits. Coffee is inherently hot, but one can not assume that every stage production will use strobe effects.
I've been told, by a dancer who was photosensitive, that most strobe lights don't flash fast enough to trigger a seizure. We debated this long and hard and even brought in lawyers to consult with because she was adamant on having strobes in her solo dance piece. Now, we had the "high end" American DJ strobe. However, we eventually had her sign a legal agreement protecting everyone involved from liability (which even then could be iffy) if something were to happen and still went ahead with standard operating procedure by putting up signs at each door and at the box office.
Bottom line is that even if someone produces verifiable evidence that everything will be ok or if "I've done it a thousand times without an issue", it's never a bad idea to be safe and post warnings anyways. Somebody could in theory get so concerned about that strobe going off and how it is about to cause them a seizure that they could have a panic attack which could in theory trigger a seizure....or panic attacks could be bad enough in their own right and could cause hospitalization. If I use a strobe light, even if it is one flash every three seconds with other lights up too, I'll post that warning just in case. Each case is different and while it was ok for her, it might not be for the next person. It's just like the old coughing syndrome that seems to plague audiences. Once one person coughs, suddenly 8 people do it, even though they didn't really need to but felt as though they did.
It's just never a bad idea to at least make your audience aware that something like that exists, even if you think that it should be obvious that a dance has flashy lights or somebody goes through extreme measures to make sure they can have a strobe in a piece.
Bottom line is that even if someone produces verifiable evidence that everything will be ok or if "I've done it a thousand times without an issue", it's never a bad idea to be safe and post warnings anyways. Somebody could in theory get so concerned about that strobe going off and how it is about to cause them a seizure that they could have a panic attack which could in theory trigger a seizure....or panic attacks could be bad enough in their own right and could cause hospitalization. If I use a strobe light, even if it is one flash every three seconds with other lights up too, I'll post that warning just in case. Each case is different and while it was ok for her, it might not be for the next person. It's just like the old coughing syndrome that seems to plague audiences. Once one person coughs, suddenly 8 people do it, even though they didn't really need to but felt as though they did.
It's just never a bad idea to at least make your audience aware that something like that exists, even if you think that it should be obvious that a dance has flashy lights or somebody goes through extreme measures to make sure they can have a strobe in a piece.
I really hate the coffee analogy.
Please look up the facts about that story, Link to the facts of the case. The woman deserved every penny she received.
The coffee was just short of boiling, to keep customers from coming back for refills. She received 3rd degree burns, and required skin grafts to repair the damage. She also asked them to just pay her medical bills, and they declined. (the medical bills were substantially less than what she won in the lawsuit.)
wolfman005
Active Member
A human moderator moved/merged the post.
In general, the community prefers that posts be attached to an existing thread rather than starting a brand new one covering the same/similar topic. Keeps things tidier, and makes it easier when searching later. We don't mind a necropost, provided it advances the discussion.
Les
Well-Known Member
My apologies for opening an old thread. I made a new thread and then after I posted it I went to my other tab which had this thread I found and saw that my new thread was tacked onto the old thread.Why did this happen?
Because it is of little value (and often confusing) to have two threads discussing the same thing. Many forums look down upon necroposting, but we welcome consolidating and/or reusing old threads as long as the question/addition is pertinent.
Posted simultaneously with Derek.
variable
Member
I take them seriously. The chance of a strobe light setting you off are little, but if you're like my wife and bright lights bother you, a single strobe flash can trigger you. We were watching the premier of Defiance and the editors inserted a bunch of single frame white frames (this is a big no-no that got past SciFi channels censors), she was down for the next two days. There are a million alternatives to high intensity strobe lights, IMO.
agree with pretty much everything said so far. We use alot of strobe, haze, fog, and pyro in our facility, and the occassional lazer. We feel being "proactive" is the best way. We post signs at the entrance, we insert a line in the program, and it is in the preshow announce as well. That way we feel we are fully covered, should an "incident" occur.
wolfman005
Active Member
Do you think this would cover me if I did something as simple as this? Please note that when I say dance on the sign, I am talking about high school Homecomings and Proms. Also, what would you do if the school admins don't want you to put up a sign like this? They scare easy and I worry that if they see something like this they will freak out and ask me to cut the lighting down to par cans.
kicknargel
Well-Known Member
wolfman005
Active Member
The first aid procedure for a seizure does not start with calling 911. A single event is not considered a medical emergency. Make sure the person is safe from harm and take note of the time. If the seizure persists for 5 minutes or recurs then call an ambulance. Otherwise just keep them safe.
http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/aboutepilepsy/firstaid/
Hopefully your facility already has procedures in place that are reviewed and practiced regularly, and some or all of your front of house staff has first aid training.
http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/aboutepilepsy/firstaid/
Hopefully your facility already has procedures in place that are reviewed and practiced regularly, and some or all of your front of house staff has first aid training.
As a school employee, I feel like your sign would freak them out and they may ask you to cut your effects. I would make the same sign, only without the exclamation points and the image. A simple "Attention Laser, Strobe, and Fog effects will be used during tonight's dance." Use a simple font and laminate it so it looks more official. I would also consider including your logo on the sign so that you are advertising at the same time.
Darkmagi
Member
I know this is an old thread. I found this information on a BBC site it particularly pertains to staff and audience members and covers a few good guidelines. Including warnings, strobe position, flash rate and more.
BBC - Strobe Lighting - myRisks Information
Safety Guideline to strobe lighting used as a visual effect for entertainment performances.
bit.ly
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