User Friendly Light board suggestions?

[Grog12]

What's funny about what happened to this thread...the original poster said capable of handling a few movers...and the line that's really important...easy for someone who has no more expierence beyond a 2-scene preset board to pick up.

Exress/Expression fits the bill. Its what made the boards such a workhorse. They're easy to program...sure movers are clunky on them...but the original poster wasn't looking for the best moving light board out there.

The original poster also stated that he was probably going down the Express/ion route and wanted feedback...we've given it to him.

Move on. There's nothing more to see here...except my usual a-holeishness and gaff being the gaffy type guy he is!

 

[David Ashton]

when I come across this sort of situation my usual answer is to supply one of the cheaper ML controllers, like the Chauvet you talk about and a dmx merge, in a community/school situation there is often a couple of people to operate together, one conventionals, one ML.This is a cheap option and has worked for my clients.Unfortunately all my clients are low budget, or I'd sell them GrandMa"s

 

[icewolf08]

Also, why did lighting jump over about 17 versions of Windows before it stopped using DOS? Windows XP also stops selling in January or February of '08, forget which, so what happens then to everything with XP embedded?

Theatre is always, on average, about 10 years behind consumer technology. It is just the way it is. The biggest reason is the cost of R&D for such a small market. We pay $40+K for lighting consoles based on less computing power than your palm pilot because there are way fewer lighting consoles in the world than palm pilots, and the R&D for the light board probably costs more.

If Microsoft stops selling windows XP in the coming months it could be like shooting themselves in the foot. Most things are still not Vista compatible, and there has been quite the rash of people switching back to XP. I believe Vista was the worst Windows launch ever.

 

[SerraAva]

Funny you should mention channel count gaff. I worked in a theatre in which they bought an Express 125 with 192 dimmers. I asked why they didn't spend the extra grand or so for a 250 so they could do one to one patch. It was a cost issue apparently.

Well, I did Miracle Worker in that space, with an Express 125, with 4 Studio Spot 250s and 192 dimmers. 18x4 is 72 channels, leaving 53 channels for 192 dimmers of which I used about 170 of. Made for a very interesting and fun patch. Enjoyed it, learned a lot from it, grew from it.

I guess the reason I find movers easy on an Express is I work closely with a director who does nothing but light for her shows, no set at all. So that meant movers on an Express, which I did for a few years, and still do to this day. I found ways and tricks to make MLs work faster on the Express so I don't have people waiting around for me. Going from poor theatre to high end corporate and back again makes for interesting experiences.

 

[SerraAva]

It was actually suppose to stop selling Jan 31st '08 Alex, but they extended it a 5 months to June '08. They extended it because of the people switching back and thats it. A new windows is due out in '09 apparently, so I will try and skip Vista like I did Windows ME. Microsoft doesn't care because they are a large corporation with many eggs in many baskets. Besides, when you control the market like they do, what they say goes. This is why I have been buying up XP licenses for the past couple of months. A few links for you:

http://www.digital-assistant.net/node/129
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298496,00.html?sPage=fnc.scitech/personaltechnology
http://www.itjungle.com/two/two100307-story01.html

 

[fredthe]

Windows XP also stops selling in January or February of '08, forget which, so what happens then to everything with XP embedded?

Minor nit... XP Pro doesn't stop selling until the end of June, 08. Microsoft has not yet set a date for the "end" of XP embedded, as there is no replacement for it (There is no "Vista Embedded"). And, MS will provide support for up to 5 years after any replacement. So, XP embedded still seems like a reasonable choice for "new" consoles.

 

[DarSax]

when I come across this sort of situation my usual answer is to supply one of the cheaper ML controllers, like the Chauvet you talk about and a dmx merge, in a community/school situation there is often a couple of people to operate together, one conventionals, one ML.This is a cheap option and has worked for my clients.Unfortunately all my clients are low budget, or I'd sell them GrandMa"s

just because there's been a semi-hijack as far as windows os stuff, I'd just second this. At my high school, conventionals and MLs were run for years on different boards, and we still did that for our concert as of last year (we got a pearl for the play/musical). It's probably the cheapest option, and especially in a cued show, a perfectly viable one (just call two types of light cues).

 

[SerraAva]

Sorry fredthe, but there is indeed a Windows Vista Embedded. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/eval/vista/default.mspx
Windows XPe was released along side of Windows XP, XPe 11/28/01 and XP 10/25/01. Now while XPe was not included in the announcement with XP sales ending, it also wasn't necessarily excluded. XP Pro and XPe are the same OS, just XPe only ships to OEMs and they can exclude some parts of XP Pro to reduce the foot print of the OS. Its just like is ETC stops making the Express, there no reason to keep making the Expression and Insight as well. If you have a replacement for the Express already in place, no sense in keeping production costs up with multiply consoles with different OSes targeting the same market. I could be wrong however about Microsoft canceling XPe alongside XP.

Microsoft is also very good with support for older Windows versions as well, with support for 98/98se ending in '06. I have no doubt they will continue to support XP and XPe for a long time to come, but the end is near for it. Windows Server 2008 also comes out soon, with the sales of Windows Sever 2003 ending sometime in '09. They make more money off of selling new OSes for more then the old ones and forcing people to by the new ones by canceling the old ones. So XPe will come to an end, no matter how bad Vista Embedded is.

 

[KaR356i]

I too could join the few that find it fairly simple to control ML's on an Express. That probably stems from the fact that it was the first board I learned many years ago, and as the theatre got ML's, I had plenty of time to play with them on that board. I have designed quite complicated shows with ML's on that board- yes it makes you think about it, but it is completely doable! I have also taught many people who have absolutely no experience how to do the same. When they have no reference to fall back on (ie, it's easier to do this on the Hog, MA, etc.) and I ask them what they think of the process, they consistently tell me that the board is very 'intuitive' and it 'makes sense' or is 'logical' when they are programming even with MLs. Of course, I have it all set up for them and they don't have to do all the trial and error stuff to figure out a lot of it. But, I've found that after a simple instruction time, I can let them go and play and they quickly get the basics down pat.

Granted, the consoles made for ML's are much much easier to deal with! But for programming shows with mostly conventionals and maybe up to 10 simple ML's, I think the Express is certainly okay.

Again, this thread has been a great source of information! Thank you all so much!!

 

[SteveB]

Sniff, - FINE, GET THE EXPRESS ALREADY, see if I care !.

(Grinning in Brooklyn).

Actually, as an interesting comparison, an Express 250 lists at $6187.50 in the BMI catalog. A quote I got today - and this is ballpark, has a 1000 channel Ion at $6295. Note however that you probably would need to budget another $1500 or so for a 2x10 fader wing for the Ion (to at least get some submaster equivalents). Of course the Ion has 4 encoder wheels and somewhere down the road, the fader wing handles become multiple playbacks - which is something the Express will not do.

But you all know how I feel about this....

SB

 

[Lightingguy32]

An ETC Expression series board is a good choice. Depending on needs you could go with the small Express 24/48 or the large Emphasis with Insight 3 facepanel and 5000 control channels with previs.