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What do you think?

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by TechiesRule, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. TechiesRule

    TechiesRule Member

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    Hi everyone. i have not been on latley since we just finished a production in our theater of the middle school next to us..Anne Frank and Me. Anyhoo, I am sound cheif of our high school theater, and in the spring, our musical is 42nd Street. if anyone has done it, or heard about, or even seen it, what type of wireless mics did you(they) use? the director is not the type of person i really like working with, but it will have to do. She is worried that using body mics can amplify the taps during the dance routines, but i know since most routines do not take place during dialoge. how can i convice the director to use mics, or what type of body mics, and how... could i use???
    plz help
     
  2. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    if they are not dancing during dialogue, there should be no problem, if you mute the mics on time!
     
  3. FTOTY

    FTOTY Member

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    I've never had a problem with body packs picking up taps even when they're on during the dance number. Just don't ever use floor mics on dancing type shows. They pick up anything near to them.
     
  4. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    unless you are deliberately trying to amplify the taps!
     
  5. blsmn

    blsmn Member

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    Well, personally, I like using mics to amplify taps during a tap dance routine. The sound of the taps is an instrument and should be mixed into whatever FOH sound there is - PCC's work great for that. I remember working once with Michael Flatley when he was touring with the Chieftans - we spent quite a bit of time working out the mic placement so the taps would get picked up effectively.

    As for the original question, seems to me that the director probably hasn't worked much with body mics to be worrying about excessive pick-up during tap numbers. And if for some reason there was a problem, that is what volumes and mutes are for. The advantages of using body mics for such a large undertaking as 42nd Street far outweigh any minor concerns such as potential dance bleed. I would get together with her as soon as possible to see what is available in the budget for mics - then you can start trying to put something together. There are many different ways to do it, but be warned - borrowing and piecemealing differents systems and mics together can be a real nightmare. If she gives you the go ahead, I would figure out exactly how many mics can be gotten by with and then contact local rental companies and check on the cost to rent units that will be frequency matched with the same mic capsules - your life and the ultimate sound quality of the show will be a lot better.
     
  6. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    what is a pcc?
     
  7. blsmn

    blsmn Member

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    Phase coherent cardioid - as in Crown PCC-160 - or what is referred to as a floor mic.
     
  8. ccfan213

    ccfan213 Active Member

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    if your director does not want to use body mics, what other options does she suggest? floor mics? hanging condensers? handheld mics? any one of those would pick up taps alot more than a body mic. i personally agree that the taps should be heard, but dont argue with your director if there is already a problem, it can only make things worse.
     
  9. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator Premium Member

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    PCC is a trademarked term used by Crown to refer to their Phase Coherent Cardioid surface microphones, such as the PCC-160. These mics sit on the floor (or wall) and have a cardioid pickup pattern for their front, and reject sound from the rear. They work relatively well, but I would never try to use them for speech/theatre reinforcement - it will sound really bad unless you know how to use them really really well.
     
  10. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    is that like a P.Z.M. (pressure zone microphone)?
     
  11. TechiesRule

    TechiesRule Member

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    Well, she doesnt want body mics, and she doesnt want hanging mics, only to be throu the monitors to the booth. she wants them to project over the taps and just project period.
     
  12. techieman33

    techieman33 Well-Known Member

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    we'll your teacher is an idiot, becasue unfortunately most actors that i have worked with don't know how to project, it's hillarious, i can go up on stage and be heard clearly from the back of the balcony, and we have a 2500 seat auditorium, but when they get on stage, i can barly hear them from 50ft. back. At my old hs they had to be miced there was no other option, it just had to be done, i don't know maybe your actors have talent. good luck.
     
  13. TechiesRule

    TechiesRule Member

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    i know...my guess would be the same, we have a 740 seat house and balcony, and i can't really hear them well, eventhough they are talanted. i guess they just have gotten used to the mics and don't know how to project... :D
    thanks
     
  14. ccfan213

    ccfan213 Active Member

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    get the mics, dont use them for dress rehearsal, when the teacher says she cant hear tell her that you happen to have body mics and could use them.
     
  15. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator Premium Member

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    They are similar, with one major difference: the pickup pattern. PCC's are cardioids and PZM's are omnidirectional. This makes PCC's better suited for theatrical situations (unless you really do need an omnidirectional mic in, say, a set piece).
     
  16. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    aah,thanks for the explaination!
     
  17. Techop

    Techop Member

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    if you put the lavs on the forehead of the actor then there well be no problem (I am serious the forehead)
     
  18. ccfan213

    ccfan213 Active Member

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    it is true that you can put mics on foreheads or cheeks as well, but on a lapel would not pick up taps either. that seems to be somewhat of a non issue.
     
  19. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator Premium Member

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    You're absolutely right on this. A mic placed on the forehead (or boom mic placed over-the-ear) will provide better gain before feedback than one placed on the lapel. Good mics for this include the Countryman IsoMax E6 and the Countryman B6 capsules.
     
  20. propmonkey

    propmonkey Well-Known Member

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    we put them on the forheads. works the best we've found.
     

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