What lights should I buy and how much is it going to set me back?

[Les]

Re: What lights should I buy and how much is it goping to set me back?

I've been told the 6x16 and 6x22 can take the heat from an FEL, but myself, I've never done it. I know for a fact that 6x9's and 6.5x4.5's can't and will crack (oh those highschool days).

And yes, the 1KAF is a nightmare. The lenses crack, the sliders stick, they're bulky, and I've had constant problems with arcing lamp sockets. That whole generation of Altmans, (1KAF, 1KL, 4.5) need to just go away.

Long live the 65Q!

It's weird, I had the inner lens of a 6x9 crack using the 575w GLA. The lenses had been cleaned about a week earlier using water and a soft towel. It cracked in a big way too, it cracked in a Y formation, completely separating the lens. The lamp didn't blow and I believe they went ahead and used the fixture for the show. It happened during focus. I heard a pop/crack sound and knew exactly what it was. The instrument had a super reflector upgrade installed, but the lamp probably wasn't bench focused correctly.



I'm thinking about doing a project on my four remaining 6x12's. The sockets are long gone and I'm thinking of replacing them with mini-can sockets so they can accept a 100w-500w lamp. I will lose efficiency due to the smaller lamp diameter and shorter length, but in venues where power is usually limited to using par cans, it might be an option. Maybe with some fancy bench focusing, I can get a decent beam. I put a mini-can socket in a 360Q using a 500w EVR lamp once and it looked very similar to the 575's running beside it. I find myself working in more unconventional venues than not, usually with only 20amp sockets available, which is why I'm considering this.

On the 1KAF: I've experienced all the problems you listed. My former high school and community theatre had these fresnels and in both venues, we had a handful with focusing slides that would either stick or wouldn't stay adjusted (we tied them to the rear handle with bailing wire in a pinch), and others that had arcing lamp bases. Seems that the leads would detach from the bottom of the socket and arc to the housing. Strain relief was still good on those fixtures. Very dangerous. The community theatre's batch was from about 1995 (the high school purchased theirs in 2000) and most of them developed spider web cracked lenses, along with the arcing and focus issue. I read up on the lens issue and apparently it was known by Altman. They came up with a fix for the problem, which apparently involved adding a thermal isolation pad between the lens and the mount that holds it in place. I think they would have fixed it for free or sent the parts, but I don't think the community theatre ever followed up on it. They had an odd semi-thrust stage with a high grid and didn't use fresnels much. Still, they should have gotten the parts. Many times I was up in that grid taking down lights which hadn't moved in years only to find the triangle-shaped lens chunks being retained only by the safety screen. The high school never had the broken lens issue. I guess it was corrected in manufacturing by then.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Re: What lights should I buy and how much is it goping to set me back?

A lamp with a smaller diameter and length won't matter, it's all about lumen output and placing the filament at the optimal point in the reflector.

In a magical world, we could have a true point source, and we could design a reflector for a perfect point source. However, since the filament in a 500 watt lamp is far from a point source, a reflector is designed to optimize the light output from a coiled, spiral filament.

I never heard about that Altman retrofit kit, wonder if they still have some around.

 

[Les]

Re: What lights should I buy and how much is it goping to set me back?

I never heard about that Altman retrofit kit, wonder if they still have some around.

If you're talking about the thermal insulators, I'll bet they are now included in the 1KAF exploded diagram.

PDF:
http://mail.altmanltg.com/publicsynergy/docs/BDBinDoc.asp?Id={B4989174-7000-414F-BB29-318FA401C31F}

Looks like they may be part number 71-0018-25.

 

[ship]

Re: What lights should I buy and how much is it goping to set me back?

Totally agree with Les on all of his posts and concepts if of any help. This from the if going S-4 going real S-4 to the Altman 360Q used or new. Resale lenses are not that expensive should you get green ones that are not as readily on the market I think or most can tell the diference in while in the audience. Used 360Q fixtures are very economical and cost effective these days, and a good buy.

This an the above note of getting all you buy and have in for a professional service call as part of the budget which say no longer allows for new fixtures of any type. Beyond that the entire cable system that's probably old and often in need or replacement as with rigging etc. No extra money to spend I would think in beyond consultant - needing to get a pro in there to look at the place overal.

On Fresnel, you probably have enough for now to work with for now. That's less a factor. Also on the Fresel... so a 65Q is totally obsolete.... there is the Selecon version for X dollars, but comparitively to what these Strand fixtures will do short of all getting BTH lamps, anything simiar? The ETC version of a Fresnel isn't a Fresnel - it's it's own animal and more expensive also.

As with matching up fixtures and using what you have, your audience is used to a certain intensity of light. Sure if you go about introducing more modern fixtures to the system, what ever you bring in will make what you have seem dim. And how did we ever light show's in the past with such ancient gear? How does your current audience survive the dim and dark days in sitting thru a show given it's not S-4 or Selcon? Perhaps a survey can be taken of the audience in asking in a non-descript way, was the stage lighting bright enough? This in not mentioning that it's ancient and "dim."

Supplement your lighting inventory is what I believe you more mean. First a service call of what you have in retaining them. You alrady have lights and now that you are in the big world of tasked with the lighting, you need to read and study. Sorry, lots on the website but there is also books to master what is now your responsibility.

Than supplement - probably don't yet know what you have in probably having some 6x9's in stock but I would highly doubt all 6x12 amongst other lens trains. Back to the books... design a few shows at least on paper, what do you need for this space? Noting a lack of strips, scoops and other stufff but probably not mentioned. 6x12 gets you up to about the first audince electric and a few over stage say side light positions. What assuming what you state do you have and is is really only 6x12 in many holes to fill? Otherwise, given them shows on paper you do, what do you now need for them?

Your Fresnels in amount are probably fine unless in design you find you need more. Your Lekos as presented lack a lot of lens sizes, but I would expect that count changes some once you better have a chance to study what you have.

My opinin, supplement some for now and even if useful for patterns or effect, get a few S-4 or Selcon fixtures that will better do what you need for intensity. This introduction of a few fixtures also helps to implement a replacement program for the future. A toy or two and four if budget allows, but first the bulk inventory and what will light the stage. New more modern lights should even if used in your situation be considered special effects lighting and one step above scrollers or movers, but not needed above basic needs yet.

Fresnels fine and supplementing by a 65Q fine or even 65 as used for both. How's your barn door stock as another thing to invest on? You in investing on your inventory first save what you have - fixtures and cabling to them, service it all. Than supplement it with what is first needed to do shows, than to get gear for the future or augment to it. First get done the show, than supplement it. What in doing shows do you need for more fixtures, and assuming new or used Altman for Leko what than do you need?

Once the stuff you have is ready, what budget do you now have left for expanding the inventory might be a better question.

 

[derekleffew]

Re: What lights should I buy and how much is it goping to set me back?

Our favorite educational institutional administrator from post#13 above reprises her role in this video:
[video]http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7451115/[/video]

Perhaps this one should be cross-posted to the Education forum as well.