What would you use a Maxim/MP or ETC Smartfade ML ?

[GT3]

Hi to all the lighting techs out there!
Needing of some help!
We have a choice out of the LSC Maxim/MP or the ETC smartfade ML lighting consoles for a church of 400 people with 6 moving lights, 24 dimming channels, led lighting needing about 128 channels and also needs to control house lighting. Having no experienced lighting operators at hand, which console would be easy to use and learn but have the necessary functions to do the job?
Cheers,
GT.

 

[DCATTechie]

What type of movers do you have and how many channels do they take up?

Do have a potential to add more Movers,LED's, or dimmers in the future?

Will the board ops be younger or older people?

I personally have never used a Maxim Console, but I am a fan of the Smartfade ML. I had a little hands-on time with at at USITT as well as a demo at a local house. The syntax is fairly simple to pick up, and I was amazed at some of the features that a console of that size was packing.

My $0.02

 

[mstaylor]

I haven't used the Maxim, seems like a decent board, but I would vote for the Smartfade.

 

[starksk]

Setting aside my obvious bias, and, in addition to DCATTechie's questions, I have some further questions for you to consider.

How do you want to control those 128 Channels of LEDs? Do they need to be discrete channels or are you looking for simply 128 outputs available to patch?

How many channels of house lighting do you have/need/would like?

What type of support are you going to get from either manufacturer?

How do you plan to run the console? Do you want to program cuestacks? Submasters? Use individual channel faders? All of the above?

Do you want/need a video monitor?

How much space do you have for the console and related gear?

How many total outputs do you need?

What types of training material are available?

I will leave the pros and cons of each console for others to discuss. However, your answers to the questions above will help you decide what you are looking for in a console, then then find which console meets those needs.

 

[GT3]

What type of movers do you have and how many channels do they take up?

Do have a potential to add more Movers,LED's, or dimmers in the future?

Will the board ops be younger or older people?

I personally have never used a Maxim Console, but I am a fan of the Smartfade ML. I had a little hands-on time with at at USITT as well as a demo at a local house. The syntax is fairly simple to pick up, and I was amazed at some of the features that a console of that size was packing.

My $0.02

hi Sam,
we will be using basic moving heads the PR Solo250 & American Accu Spot250 using about 10 channels each. we dont need to allow for any future lights or channels and the console will be used by all age groups. we need something fairly easy to use but also do a good job. have heard smartfade does a good job but was also told the Maxium console was worth a look.

 

[GT3]

Setting aside my obvious bias, and, in addition to DCATTechie's questions, I have some further questions for you to consider.

How do you want to control those 128 Channels of LEDs? Do they need to be discrete channels or are you looking for simply 128 outputs available to patch?

How many channels of house lighting do you have/need/would like?

What type of support are you going to get from either manufacturer?

How do you plan to run the console? Do you want to program cuestacks? Submasters? Use individual channel faders? All of the above?

Do you want/need a video monitor?

How much space do you have for the console and related gear?

How many total outputs do you need?

What types of training material are available?

I will leave the pros and cons of each console for others to discuss. However, your answers to the questions above will help you decide what you are looking for in a console, then then find which console meets those needs.

hi Kirk,
i dont have much lighting console operating experience i am a sound tech but given the task of fitting out a new 400 seat church Auditorium with sound and lighting. So any lighting techincal terms are all new but i am fast learner.
To answer your points the LEDs Pars total approx 20 and use 4 channels each, doubled up making 40 channels but need to be control via the console channels to use on the fly if needed. the other LEDs are washes and use about same amount channels but will add more later.
House lighting needs 6 channels, 2 for fluorescents and 4 for halogens.
Would like to run the console with programed cuestacks, submasters and individual channel faders.
A video monitor would be nice, does the smartfade ML have provision for one?
I appreciate any help you could offer or any one else.
Thanks,
GT

 

[NickJones]

The Maxim is a simple to use console, but if I remember correctly it does need an extra bit called a PatPad to control the movers. Try and get a demo of both, being an Aussie I have a bias towards LSC products.
Nick

 

[jmabray]

The smartfade does not have a direct monitor out. It does, however have the capability for one with the use of a laptop and the SmartSoft software. You plug a USB cable between the two and not only do you get real time feedback and display information about what the console is doing, but when you are offline, you can edit your showfile and change things around. SmartSoft is available for free from the ETC website.

 

[Smicks]

No matter what the situation, I would always recommend an ETC board. The products are reliable, can do advanced things while being able to offer fairly simple controls for the less experienced.

I've run shows involving quite a few PARs, and multi-parameter fixtures such as LEDs on the SmartFade 1248 (ETC's lowest model) and have so far never had an issue with not having an external monitor. The LED display shows you exactly what you need to know, I believe there's actually 2 LCDs on the ML.

To use LEDs on SmartFade, I patch the red channel on a fader, the green channel on a fader, and the blue channel on a fader, and use those 3 faders to color mix. I usually have LED downlight and LED uplight both running separate colors, so I have 2 sets (6 faders) of RGB mixing. If you want to have a lot of color groups, this can eat up a LOT of your limited faders, though, so it may not be the best way for you.

ML also provides plenty of intuitive control for moving lights, but it would be redundant to talk about it here when it's explained pretty clearly in the manual.

So, in my biased opinion, go with the SmartFade ML.

 

[soundlight]

It depends on how you're going to control those LEDs. What kind of fixtutres are they, and how do you intend to use them? I love the Smartfade ML, and think it's a very easy console to use. However, if you have more than 24 total moving lights and LED fixtures combined, it's not very useful unless you channel some things together (which is definitely doable in some situations). The SFML is very easy to play back looks with, and the GO-mode functionality is quite nice.

 

[starksk]

... Try and get a demo of both...

I couldn't agree more. Having hands on experience with the units you are considering spending large sums of money to own is invaluable.

Another way to go about this, since it appears that your system is probably not going to exceed 512 outputs, is to sit down and make a list of what you would like to control on what fader ignoring the actual number of faders on each console for now. This will give you basically a channel list.

After you have compilied that wish list, look at both consoles and see which fits closer to the way you would like to run your system. If one runs exactly how you would like it, perfect! If neither does it the way you want, look at how you might be willing to compromise if these two consoles are your only choice, or look to find a console that does what you want.

 

[GT3]

The Maxim is a simple to use console, but if I remember correctly it does need an extra bit called a PatPad to control the movers. Try and get a demo of both, being an Aussie I have a bias towards LSC products.
Nick

Maxim MP model is the one we are looking at and it does'nt come with PaTPad option only the L-LP onwards, so good point, thanks.

 

[00AVD]

The MP does come with the PatPad. That's what the P in MP stands for! Medium layout size (24/48 faders) with PatPad.

From the LSC Lighting web site:

PatPad:
Fully retrofittable to MAX/L, MAX/XL or MAX/XXL (standard in MAX/MP).

 

[GT3]

I was looking at an old brochure were it was not available only on the next size up. thanks for the info.

 

[00AVD]

AFAIK it's been an option for many years. I installed an MP in a local high school about 4 years ago. They really haven't used the PatPad yet, but I must say the conventional section of the desk is easy to learn and intuitive to use.

The reason I went with the MP (and not the straight M) was that it was purchased using a grant and they won't get another chance to upgrade that system for a long time. The PatPad will see some use soon with hired movers I'm sure.