Lighting Control Console

[StageTech620]

Hello! I figured I would ask all of you, considering I may be missing something. I am looking for a lighting console to install in a community theater. I have worked with Strand Consoles before, along with ETC (such as IONs). Anyway, it doesn't need a whole ton of channels, we are running under 24 conventionals, but we do have about 36 channels of LEDs which need to be controlled. Also, the more basic, the better. Ideally, we just need the ability to have one LCD screen, and the ability to write cues. Moving heads are most likely something we won't ever use. What do you think the best option for a console is? The lower the price, the better. Something under $2000 is ideal.

Thanks!

 

[Amiers]

Get an expression or an element. Easy to use and reasonably priced if you get them from the right people.

 

[StageTech620]

Get an expression or an element. Easy to use and reasonably priced if you get them from the right people.

What do those run? New and Used Prices would be wonderful. Thanks

 

[dbaxter]

Don't overlook computer based lighting control. There are several options/packages that have been discussed here. A Windows based solution can be found for less than around $6-7 hundred dollars, computer included.

 

[StageTech620]

Don't overlook computer based lighting control. There are several options/packages that have been discussed here. A Windows based solution can be found for less than around $6-7 hundred dollars, computer included.

I have thought about this! Could you point out a few systems? A physical board is a must, however.

Thanks

 

[dbaxter]

That will limit your options to those that can support wings, of course. A list of systems can be found on both the Enttec and DMX King web sites. Unless you are doing a lot of busking, I fail to see the real need for a physical board, however. To do plays and musicals all we've required is the ability to go cue by cue through a cue stack/list.

 

[BobHealey]

That will limit your options to those that can support wings, of course. A list of systems can be found on both the Enttec and DMX King web sites. Unless you are doing a lot of busking, I fail to see the real need for a physical board, however. To do plays and musicals all we've required is the ability to go cue by cue through a cue stack/list.

At the community level, sometimes its what makes the volunteers most comfortable. If the people who are normally running a show feel a need for physical faders to set levels, then physical faders are a requirement. I know several lighting folks at one theater, who when programming cues for the Express, set all the faders for a scene, record the cue, zero the board, and repeat. Because that's how they learned to do it 20-30 years ago, and they aren't comfortable keying in values or editing the previous look into the next look. Often means there are minor level fluctations between cues due to lack of precision on fader placement.

 

[chausman]

In a community theater I was apart of when we were in a space with an Express we could teach anyone to record cues or walk up and run the show. The few times we were in a space that only had software based controls, there was exactly 2 people who were comfortable doing anything, because most people couldn't wrap their head around how the software worked. At least not in the limited time we had access to the space (since we owned the PC and software, just no dimmers to give people an opportunity to use it before we got to the venue).

 

[dthomas32308]

If your interested in exploring the computer controlled route then check out ChamSys which has a lot of routes you can take for control of lights. They are more known as a moving light/media control console but I use it almost exclusively and I do a lot of theater design. Then software is free to download and when you open it up your given several options for the software layout one of which is set up like a conventional desk with individual faders for I believe 24/48 channels. It also has a visualizer built into the software and since I freelance multiple venues I build a rep base show for each venue with and a base light plot in the viz so when I start a show I have a starting point to plug in set pieces and can program without turning on the lights or while at home then just fine tune and make cue updates during rehearsals.

When it comes to using ChamSys for live shows as I mentioned there are several ways you can go... USB dongle for about $100 gives you non-time restricted ability to control 1 universe of DMX you just don't have a few features like MIDI control and remote focus and everything is done using keyboard, mouse and/or touchscreen if you have one. If you prefer more conventional control with physical control then can look at the PC wings which unlock features of Chamsys and give you more universes of DMX (up to 32 controllable universes). I often see used PC Mini Wings for around $5-600 and keep in mind that the PC wings can be added later on when it can be budgeted for. The final route would be the full on consoles which like the wings great hardware and construction just be prepared as they get expensive if you're in a smaller budget theater.

 

[VRommel]

I have thought about this! Could you point out a few systems? A physical board is a must, however.

Thanks

Good Morning! I am Van Rommel and I am the Director of Business Development at Pathway Connectivity. You might want to consider the "Starter" model of our Cognito 2 console. You can learn more about this system by visiting our YouTube channel at www.youtube.com/user/pathwayconnectivity.

This is a "physical" board but you would not be contending with a command line user interface. This console is designed specifically for the type of facility and users group that you have described so you will have intensity faders, programmable Memories played back from buttons or faders and you will have the ability to record cues in Playlists.

There are many fine products on the market and we always advising those considering the purchase of a console to put their hands on products from more than one manufacturer so that you can make an informed decision.

You are welcome to contact me privately to discuss MSRP pricing and locating a Pathway Connectivity dealer who can assist you with a demonstration and evaluation.

Happy Holidays!

Best Regards,
Pathway Connectivity


Van Rommel
Director Business Development

 

[Amiers]

What do those run? New and Used Prices would be wonderful. Thanks

I got my Expression 3 for 2800$ but was through a friend. The Elements start at roughly 3800$ used. I know that it is a bit off your budget but it gives you room to expand.

Now everyone else has good points. Software base is considerably cheaper, but has the learning curve and most lack physical faders. It also requires the purchase of a computer within the specs of the software.

If you want to go new Pathway is a good option. Their board is small and easily moved around. It has some really nice features and a great deal of room to expand. Though he didn't put a price to the console for you, when I was demoing it and got a quote it started at 5200$.

Good luck with your hunt, I would still shoot for getting and Express/ion or Element if you can.

 

[JohnD]

Can you get by with one universe of DMX? The list price of the Cognito2 starter is $2900.
When looking at computer based solutions take a look at Martin and the M Touch surface.
http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/274640-Martin-Professional-M-Touch

 

[Fountain Of Euph]

I also am not comfortable with PC based boards. I want my mission critical device to be only able to do its job, and not play mine sweeper.

My suggestion is the ETC Smartfade ML. Its going used for somewhere in the low two thousands ballpark.
It is built for your situation: two layers of conventionals plus a dedicated area for LEDs that is really great.
It connects to a computer with the smartsoft software, but all the memory and processing happens in the desk. Two U of DMX built in.
But the biggest selling point is ETC tech support. Truly the best in the industry.

Sent from Taptalk for Android, this was.

 

[JChenault]

I also am not comfortable with PC based boards. I want my mission critical device to be only able to do its job, and not play mine sweeper.

.

Without getting into the merits of PC based systems. Your discomfort here does not make sense to me. our PC board ONLY has Plexus running on it. No games, email, etc. It is not connected to the Internet so has no virus scans running.

If you are worried about someone installing a game, lock it down with admin privileges, but I find that this is not a real issue in this day and age. My board ops would rather play a game on their phone than install something on the show computer.

 

[dthomas32308]

I also am not comfortable with PC based boards. I want my mission critical device to be only able to do its job, and not play mine sweeper.

You do realize your console is just a specialized console and most consoles are either running a version of Linux or custom version of Windows plus they are subject to the same ability for hardware failure as a computer except you can't just replace parts like the motherboard in a console.

 

[Fountain Of Euph]

ETC uses embedded Windows if im not mistaken. However the only possable function is to be a lighting controller, and nothing else. I use a 12 yo Express. And while Its time has come, I still trust it to do its job, and do it well. If, in theory, the venue had purchased a PC based solution, it would be running Windows XP. Support for XP ended in 2009. Extended support ended in 2014. For a PC based options to be viable, the venue would need to have a IT budget, and would need to deal with tech support from possably 4 diffrent companies (Hardware manufacturer, Microsoft, DMX dongle, and control software). Chances are likely that not all four can match the support of a specialist like ETC. Good luck getting Dell, Microsoft, HP, or Lenovo to support a 12 year old machine, let alone for free at 2 am WI time like ETC will. If anyone knows of a computer hardware manufacturer that can best ETC's support, let me know because that is who I will buy my next computer from...

The reason that my venue has a 2003 express; we don't have any money to upgrade. Everything in a PC based controller would be obsolete and non functional by this point. And if it weren't, I wouldn't trust it to run my show....


Sent from Taptalk for Android, this was.

 

[MikeJ]

. Everything in a PC based controller would be obsolete and non functional by this point. And if it weren't, I wouldn't trust it to run my show....

True; all computers stop working after 12 years, its because of the half-life of their radioactive power core.

 

[dbaxter]

So if you treat your PC the same way as ETC treats their embedded system, there will be no difference. As John Chenault and I, as software authors, maintain: don't mess with your lighting computer. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I have clients running a RC lap counting program I wrote in 2002, just fine. Please don't knock a PC based solution because Intel came out with the i7 or Microsoft with Windows 10. If things are running fine, you don't have to upgrade/update. OK, I'll stop.

 

[JChenault]

To follow up. iMHO There are actually maintenance advantages in using commodity hardware instead of a console.

When the keypad on my console starts to get intermittent, I have to send it in for service. With my PC solution I go th Best Buy and pick up a new keyboard for $20 . If it is an emergency is steal the keyboard from an office computer.
When my dmx output quits working on my express ( it has happened to me ) I am in trouble. With a PC solution I simply ( if I am smart ) replace my DMX dongle with my backup unit.

Since lighting consoles don't take too much hoesepower, when my computer starts getting long in the tooth, and ( say) the power supply is failing, I can usually find a machine in the office that I can repurpose to lighting ( or in an emergency I use my laptop). Microsoft is very good about backwards compatibility with programs so ( at least with our system) the code that runs on XP runs on later versions as Well.

If I do need a new box, it can be pretty wimpy and still work fine. If you spend more than $400 you are probably wasting money. When your express dies the final death, and you have a show the next night what do you do? I go to Best Buy and am good to go.

The key phrase here is Commodity Hardwae. You can be much more reliable and cheaper with commodity hardware than you can with custom hardware.

 

[robartsd]

To follow up. iMHO There are actually maintenance advantages in using commodity hardware instead of a console.

This is dependent on someone competent with basic computer administration. It is a skill that many have, but it is not universal.

Microsoft is very good about backwards compatibility with programs so ( at least with our system) the code that runs on XP runs on later versions as Well.

While I'm pretty sure the old program would run on a newer Windows, the OS upgrade may break compatibility with drivers for some more unique hardware (DMX dongle, control surfaces).

I do agree (though I have no experience with) that a software solution makes the most sense for some situations. It is the solution I will look to if I ever move on from the 0-10v 2 scene preset board at the church where I volunteer. (I'm currently thinking that building a 0-10v node arround a RasberryPi might be the most appropriate path to upgrading control there.)