DELO72
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected! I did not think of anyone purposely tapping the power coming in with reverse transformers to drive HIGHER than what comes in from the building power to pro-actively account for voltage drop.
Alright.... I'll bite ETC....
- Thread starterPie4Weebl
- Start date
I stand corrected! I did not think of anyone purposely tapping the power coming in with reverse transformers to drive HIGHER than what comes in from the building power to pro-actively account for voltage drop.
techieman33
Well-Known Member
I'm on the other side of things and only getting ~109v out of most of my CD80 circuits. So any short life lamp automatically becomes a long life lamp even if I run it at full. Looking at ETCs datasheet I don't even have enough voltage to run a source4ward. I wonder how much of a problem that will be for other venues.
Well, Sensor dimmers have always regulated at about 120V at the output of the dimmer. In fact, the design of the system was that the rack would regulate at 120V, there would be about 5V drop in the load wiring, and a 115V lamp would get max voltage. That's why the lamps are available in 115V as well as 120V.
If you need higher voltage at the outlet, to deal with longer circuit runs, then as long as more voltage is available at the rack, the rack can be tuned up a bit to allow that through.
David
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Correct me but I thought Sensor could be configured to output whatever you told it to, circuit by circuit. I thought CD 80 - at least in 80's and on - could also regulate. But either, as I recall, dropped the voltage 3 to 5% across the scrs, so if you only had 120 in, no way you'd have 120 out or at the lamp after 100'+ of #10s or larger. (Recall Woltrap with very long foh had #4s or #6s on 20 amp circuits.)
In any case I attempted to get 120 at the socket with 1500 watts on the circuit - because even to 1k lekos was not unheard of on one circuit - and that meant tapping up the feed.
Assumed this is why S4s were always perceived as brighter than they measured at first, both bluer and at same voltage as the 120 volt lamp it was being compared to.
Well it makes sense that the new LED would be intended to be used where you would use long life lamps.
Tag- @DELO72
BUT...Think about the math here, If sales are about even between standard, and LL lamps, then the number of people using them is far from equal.
Standard(54622)= 300hr
Long Life(54807)= 2000hr
So all other things being equal and all customers using lamps the same amount of time,
for every 100 customers using LL, you would only have 15 customers using the standard lamp, just using a lot more of them.
The reality is probably not that skewed. For example in rental inventory for rock and roll or corporate, where High output/short life makes sense, you might only use a fixture 2-3 days a week, and only a few hours for an event those days. In a theater, you might see more than 40hr a week on a lamp, and use LL lamps. In the end it might even out, but really it comes down to not how many lamps sold, but how many end customers are buying them.
Back to the LED.
For $600 retail. Nobody is touching that price. Good retrofit for a lot of existing fixtures, especially architectural installs.
For comparison, the Ovation 190, matches the output of the brighter Short life lamp, so it a good bit brighter, but you do have to buy a whole new fixture that is more expensive, but probably similar, in cost to ETC if you have no fixtures to retrofit.
****Ooh, One question @STEVETERRY , Is there any significant UV output from this LED? For Museums we always need UV filtered out(usually just use gel anyway), but for entertainment UV can be fun.
Tag- @DELO72
BUT...Think about the math here, If sales are about even between standard, and LL lamps, then the number of people using them is far from equal.
Standard(54622)= 300hr
Long Life(54807)= 2000hr
So all other things being equal and all customers using lamps the same amount of time,
for every 100 customers using LL, you would only have 15 customers using the standard lamp, just using a lot more of them.
The reality is probably not that skewed. For example in rental inventory for rock and roll or corporate, where High output/short life makes sense, you might only use a fixture 2-3 days a week, and only a few hours for an event those days. In a theater, you might see more than 40hr a week on a lamp, and use LL lamps. In the end it might even out, but really it comes down to not how many lamps sold, but how many end customers are buying them.
Back to the LED.
For $600 retail. Nobody is touching that price. Good retrofit for a lot of existing fixtures, especially architectural installs.
For comparison, the Ovation 190, matches the output of the brighter Short life lamp, so it a good bit brighter, but you do have to buy a whole new fixture that is more expensive, but probably similar, in cost to ETC if you have no fixtures to retrofit.
****Ooh, One question @STEVETERRY , Is there any significant UV output from this LED? For Museums we always need UV filtered out(usually just use gel anyway), but for entertainment UV can be fun.
You are correct. Perhaps I misunderstand the post. If a rack was originally fed with 132V, for example, putting a Sensor rack in would give about 120V at the rack and depending on load and circuit length/size, be about 115V at the plug. It would only be higher than 115V if the circuit length was short and load light.
The 120V at the rack does assume greater than 120V feeding the rack, as posited. There is a voltage drop across the SSR and across the choke. The higher the load on the dimmer, the greater the drop through the choke - 3% in a fully loaded D20.
I guarantee you people do not trim the circuits, even though each dimmer has that capacity. A few high performance or high spec jobs do, here and there. Mostly this is critical in TV studios for color temp matching.
Not sure about brighter looking, but yes, high voltage could do that in addition to the blue look.
David
AlexDonkle
Active Member
Just to clarify, is the 120V output from Sensor racks an automatic adjustment (so the rack corrects the output voltage if the incoming voltage fluctuates, someone changes the transformer tap years after install, etc.), or is the 120V output of the rack adjustment manually done during system commissioning?
My sales guy tells me that the price of $599 is fixed by ETC and there will be no discounts below it. I'm guessing that means when the price goes up to $699, dealers will be allowed to give discounts as they see fit. For now, $599 is a true discounted price and everyone get's the deal. That's kind of cool ETC!
My sales guy also says that ETC currently only has one demo unit which is touring the country. So call you local dealer(s) and let them know you want to see it if it comes through town. Or you can wait a few months for them to get more demo units out into circulation.
Correct. It is automatic and starts at 120V, but that 120V set point can be edited on a per dimmer basis. In addition, this regulation happens at every place along the dimmer curve so that an increase in feed voltage does not affect light output. A dip in feed voltage can be also regulated, if the dimmer is currently at a level below the dip, but if the dimmer is set above the dip, then a dip will be seen at the light.
David
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
I apologize but it was an interesting question and I'm not sure I understood your answer. Is the regulation active, as in if the feed fluctuates does the output stay constant? And does it change based on load? Someone plugs in 4 - 575s and it compensates?
My interpretation of @DavidNorth is that it is actively adjusting for supply side fluxuations as long as there is voltage available to do so. The increased load on a particular circuit would have little impact on the supply voltage at the dimmer. The rack probably adjusts for internal losses due to the load (if possible), but I highly doubt that it is programed to account for the increased voltage drop in the circuit between dimmer and load.
Correct. The rack regulates each dimmer individually [output stays constant] based on feed voltage fluctuations only and as long as enough voltage is present to make said changes. Changes in the amount of load on a dimmer are not compensated for dynamically.
However, in CEM3, you can select how much load will be on a specific dimmer since load does affect curve to the slightest degree. I think I may be close to opening a can of worms not intended for this thread, although I am more than willing to continue if requested.
David
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but say there's a foh circuit with a 750 plug in. I talked up the transformer so you've got lots of volts. Purring along with 120 volts at the dimmer output. I twofer another 750 onto the circuit. Doesn't that meter at the dimmer show a voltage drop?
Let's leave AF out of this entirely. Too much.
Yes, adding a second 750W fixture into the circuit will indeed show a voltage drop as the rack does not compensate for connected load. Now, to be honest, the voltage does not change significantly, but it does change. The factors involved here are additional drop across the choke and additional drop across the load circuit wiring. So, the longer the wire run, the greater the voltage drop.
David
Scenemaster60
Well-Known Member
On that tangent, I'd be interested to hear about a junior option.
