advice on outdoor setup

[katieeelauren]

Hi everyone!
I'm hoping someone can offer some helpful advice here. I am a student, and while I have experience working in a theatre, I do not have any experience with outdoor events. I managed to get myself into a project and well I guess that as a lighting student I'm expected to know what products should be bought for this venue. The venue consists of a veryy small wooden platform/stage and a grass lawn that is on a downward incline towards the stage. Events have been held here during the day but now they are looking to be able to do shows into the night. The guy in charge sent me this link: Amazon.com: On-Stage Stands Backline Lighting Stand with Truss: Electronics. Now this is where I really need some clarification. For the record, I know nothing about trusses. His interpretation was that the truss would be positioned directly in front of the stage. I looked at a lot of pictures online and saw that this is where the truss was positioned, BUT the stages were much larger than the one that we are trying to light. There's maybe a foot (if that) between the artists and the down stage edge. This led me to think that the truss should be placed a distance back from the stage... but then we run into the issue of the incline. Any advice?
Also, he's interested in getting some par cans. The only experience I have with par cans is using par64s as work lights in the theatre. I don't know what size would be reasonable for this type of project.
Any thoughts or advice would be so appreciated. Thanks!

 

[len]

That truss is probably about 9' high at its highest point, and designed for a dj at a party or wedding. Even if the stage is only one foot high, that means the truss is a 8' above the stage. At best, you'll get about 20 people with a view of the stage before it's obstructed by some part of that truss.

You really need a 3 dimensional truss (that pix is called ladder truss, or i-truss, generally) that spans all the way across the stage from one side to the other, plus some extra width. And some sort of stand that can support that much weight. You could use an Applied L-16, etc., but the issue with ANYTHING is getting it onto a flat surface. Not only that, but you're dealing with wind and other elements that need to be accounted for. PLEASE NOTE THAT THESE ARE ONLY SOME OF THE ISSUES YOU ARE FACING. THERE ARE PROBABLY MANY OTHER ISSUES TO BE DEALT WITH FOR THIS PROJECT.

Really, this is a job for people with more experience than you sound like you have.

 

[derekleffew]

Rather than attempt to create an FOH cove position, most amphitheatre s are lit from towers on the sides of the audience, a quasi- box boom position. See - John Huntington's Blog - The Real "Book of Mormon" Show: Hill Cumorah*Pageant for one extreme, recent example.

As for fixtures, PAR cans work well; they're inexpensive, and the precision and lack of spill of an ERS is likely not needed. However, using indoor-rated equipment outdoors, exposed to the weather, is a different matter altogether. See the threads http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/8008-outdoor-stage-lighting.html , http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/24192-outdoor-lighting-no-power.html . See also this timely thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...-outdoor-stage-collapses-storm-1-injured.html .

 

[JD]

Rain and wind are big factors. You have to plan as if they will occur, and hope that they do not. PAR cans, for the most part, are not rated for outdoor use, but seam to survive weather events better than most. (and are cheapest to replace if damaged.) Moving lights, and other lights with on-board electronic control (LED fixtures) are most likely to be damaged or have a delayed problem related to prior water exposure.

 

[katieeelauren]

Thanks everyone for the advice so far!
For starters.. I guess that I should have explained the situation a bit better. Although the event is outdoors, we're looking for something that could be assembled and taken down (in a reasonable amount of time) for each event. This means that it would only be up for a few hours, and is not expected to withstand any extreme weather conditions. (Although there is a steady breeze that blows through the area so we need something that can stand up to that). If there was rain, the event would be cancelled. It's really just a temporary setup that we're looking for.
Also, while I would love to be working with the opportunity to design and program, the fact is that this venture isn't really along those lines. He simply wants to light the stage in the simplest way possible. No designing for the specific show, no cues, no nothing. Just a static flood to illuminate the space.

 

[shiben]

Thanks everyone for the advice so far!
For starters.. I guess that I should have explained the situation a bit better. Although the event is outdoors, we're looking for something that could be assembled and taken down (in a reasonable amount of time) for each event. This means that it would only be up for a few hours, and is not expected to withstand any extreme weather conditions. (Although there is a steady breeze that blows through the area so we need something that can stand up to that). If there was rain, the event would be cancelled. It's really just a temporary setup that we're looking for.
Also, while I would love to be working with the opportunity to design and program, the fact is that this venture isn't really along those lines. He simply wants to light the stage in the simplest way possible. No designing for the specific show, no cues, no nothing. Just a static flood to illuminate the space.

Grab a couple of those towers like are in the photo holding up the truss, and just use those with a buncha PAR 56s on each. Wire them up with an appropriate number of circuits, and hook the entire thing up to a couple bundled plugs. Collapse and make happen every night.

 

[MarshallPope]

Does anyone else thin this might be a good place to use footlights in addition to the PAR towers? It would be quick and easy for someone who may not have any experience to lay them out and would help get a more even wash across the width of the stage.

 

[len]

Although the event is outdoors, we're looking for something that could be assembled and taken down (in a reasonable amount of time) for each event. This means that it would only be up for a few hours, and is not expected to withstand any extreme weather conditions. e.

It doesn't matter if it's only up for 10 seconds, if it could fall and hurt someone, you need to do everything in your power to prevent that.

Someone mentioned footlights, and that seems like a good, quick solution. Wide floods, maybe an LED product depending on the amount of power available, but be very cautious about putting things in the air unless you can keep them there.

 

[katieeelauren]

Does anyone else thin this might be a good place to use footlights in addition to the PAR towers? It would be quick and easy for someone who may not have any experience to lay them out and would help get a more even wash across the width of the stage.

I was playing with the option of getting some cheap box work lights, and positioning them on the stage (upstage) shooting out towards the audience. I thought that this combined with the pars could light the area, along with creating a somewhat decent environment. (The main event that I am working on with him is indie rock for younger generations). Like I said, I am new to this type of venture, but trees and floormounts were what I first suggested to him (he just has the dream of a little truss stuck on his mind). So do I get someeeee credit for thinking in the right direction? lol

 

[shiben]

I was playing with the option of getting some cheap box work lights, and positioning them on the stage (upstage) shooting out towards the audience. I thought that this combined with the pars could light the area, along with creating a somewhat decent environment. (The main event that I am working on with him is indie rock for younger generations). Like I said, I am new to this type of venture, but trees and floormounts were what I first suggested to him (he just has the dream of a little truss stuck on his mind). So do I get someeeee credit for thinking in the right direction? lol

HEHE. Indie rock? Get yourself to the Home Depot and get the smallest but most powerful floods you can find. A couple on stands would be good too. Then get yourself to the furnishings section and get some cheap as heck floor lamps, and put them out there too. The bands will be better photographed with some lights in the background. Then get yourself a couple towers, some cheap PARs for frontwash. Footlights would probably be good, basically figure out how much money you want to spend, and spend on your PAR towers first, then as many variants of worklights as you can. If you have controls and can get some mmers, that would be even better. Run the lights at different brightnesses but just leave them at that, dont bother to change them during songs...

 

[katieeelauren]

HEHE. Indie rock? Get yourself to the Home Depot and get the smallest but most powerful floods you can find. A couple on stands would be good too. Then get yourself to the furnishings section and get some cheap as heck floor lamps, and put them out there too. The bands will be better photographed with some lights in the background. Then get yourself a couple towers, some cheap PARs for frontwash. Footlights would probably be good, basically figure out how much money you want to spend, and spend on your PAR towers first, then as many variants of worklights as you can. If you have controls and can get some mmers, that would be even better. Run the lights at different brightnesses but just leave them at that, dont bother to change them during songs...

Oh, trust me. I've been to Home Depot doing research already lol. When I first got started talking about the project, I thought that the cheap/rougher appearance of a husky worklight was what we were aiming for. After doing reasearch (and finding some really great worklights at a good price at walmart) I then got a bit of a different message. Turns out that he is going for a much more polished/professional appearance than orange worklights on stands. (go figure lol). While they'd get the job done for this show, and be a great esthetic for the younger audience, he is still trying to maintain a certain level of quality to accompany his production company's name. Therein lies his secret desire to set up his own little truss and par cans. I've attempted to explain to him that I don't think that's the right track to be going down, but he's kinda stuck on the idea and I have been trying to find some solid research to back me up.

 

[shiben]

Oh, trust me. I've been to Home Depot doing research already lol. When I first got started talking about the project, I thought that the cheap/rougher appearance of a husky worklight was what we were aiming for. After doing reasearch (and finding some really great worklights at a good price at walmart) I then got a bit of a different message. Turns out that he is going for a much more polished/professional appearance than orange worklights on stands. (go figure lol). While they'd get the job done for this show, and be a great esthetic for the younger audience, he is still trying to maintain a certain level of quality to accompany his production company's name. Therein lies his secret desire to set up his own little truss and par cans. I've attempted to explain to him that I don't think that's the right track to be going down, but he's kinda stuck on the idea and I have been trying to find some solid research to back me up.

Ah i see. Well, for one that truss wont make him look polished at all, more silly. Actually, I have seen quite a few profesionally done shows where the frontlight was footlights or some sort of low mounted PAR or washlight, and then plenty of PARs in the back for color. I would just advise that the mark of a pro is getting the right look for the show...

 

[Les]

...the mark of a pro is getting the right look for the show...

New signature?

 

[katieeelauren]

... the mark of a pro is getting the right look for the show...

if only people who don't do lighting could grasp that concept, the world would be a better place for people like me.

 

[shiben]

New signature?

quite possibly.

if only people who don't do lighting could grasp that concept, the world would be a better place for people like me.

Well ya know... Applies to every area. I think your best bet is to "save money" by just getting the towers, and skipping the truss. Its just gonna be that thing you leave in the truck every night, and wont really add any value. Load up your towers with some PARs. If your going to have a guy there and REALLY want a truss, get some LED PAR 64s and put that truss thing in the back. Change colors as per usual.

 

[n1ist]

I have made footlights in the past using the 150w or 300W halogen outdoor floods (the kind that comes with a PIR detector to mount over the garage door). I mounted some bell boxes to a 1x4, ran pvc conduit between them, and ran them from a shoebox dimmer. You can even slip gel between the glass and the front frame.
/mike

 

[katieeelauren]

thank you everyone for all of your helpful advice! I'm really glad that I found this website, and trust me, I'll be back!