Control/Dimming "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

[HairyAz]

Have a really stupid question here. I am using a Sensor+ Dimmer. SP1220A+ 12 x 20a Portable pack w Edison.

What I am trying to do is set Dimmers 9-12 as on and non-dimmable for use with my moving lights (and disco ball spinner) on the Socapex I am using fanned through the edison outputs. When you pull out the CEM there are dipswitches but I have no idea which ones would allow me to do this.

Am I making this way too hard? I am using this dimmer with Chamsys MagicQ PC. Suggestions? Thanks in advance.

 

[Footer]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

Which CEM do you have, CEM, CEM+, or the MPE?

 

[DuckJordan]

Do you not care about your movers
If not then by all means use "non-dim" power. Other wise read the many conversations about the need for clean power.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[SteveB]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

Do you not care about your movers
If not then by all means use "non-dim" power. Other wise read the many conversations about the need for clean power.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

What Duck is saying is that it's a really bad idea to use a dimmer in so-called "Non-Dim" mode to power movers. All kinds of issues with it, including the potential to void any warranty. I'd suggest doing a Google search to read about it. The solution is either 1) Use a relay module. 2) Use a constant current module. (both replace a dimmer module), or 3) Use an alternative source of power.

 

[derekleffew]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

...What I am trying to do is set Dimmers 9-12 as on and non-dimmable for use with my moving lights (and disco ball spinner) on the Socapex I am using fanned through the edison outputs. ...

I believe there is a menu setting in the CEM+ Dimmer Set-Up for "Hot Patch" or "Always On" or words to that effect.

HOWEVER,

As we've discussed about a million times, the phase-control SCR dimmer is intended for resistive loads (incandescent lamps) only. IF a device has a transformer, power supply, motor, diode, etc., it probably won't enjoy like being run though a dimmer. ... But please don't put moving lights or anything expensive that you can't afford to replace on a dimmer. There is no profile or magic setting on the console or in the dimmer's brain that can trump physics.
...The phrase "At your own risk" seems applicable. "Do ya feel lucky, punk? Well do ya?"

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Which CEM do you have, CEM, CEM+, or the MPE?

The first post states "I am using a Sensor+ Dimmer. SP1220A+ 12 x 20a Portable pack w Edison." As far as I know, the Sensor+ can ONLY use the CEM+ (unless the pack has been updated to CEM3).

 

[hobbsies]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

I know it's a pain in the ass, but it's probably best to run separate power for your movers and plug them into a wall socket. I hate dealing with movers for this reason, mainly because it owns my labor budget.

 

[TimMiller]

Buy or rent some CC20 modules. You just pop them in and you are done. No resetting any parameters and your movers are happy.

 

[HairyAz]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

Buy or rent some CC20 modules. You just pop them in and you are done. No resetting any parameters and your movers are happy.

Thanks guys. This was a big help. Any idea how to configure the dipswitches to ALL ON for the entire 12 channel dimmer?

 

[icewolf08]

Thanks guys. This was a big help. Any idea how to configure the dipswitches to ALL ON for the entire 12 channel dimmer?

If you use CC-20 modules they are always on unless you switch the breakers. I wouldn't mess with dip switches on the CEM. If you need to set dimmers to always on you can do it in the CEM software. Just set the level on the CEM. You can download the manual from ETC.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.762970,-111.850917

 

[starksk]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

... Any idea how to configure the dipswitches to ALL ON for the entire 12 channel dimmer?

If this is truly a Sensor+ Pack, then it will use a CEM+. The CEM+ has no user configurable dipswitches internally. There is a single switch that is labeled TEST NORM. It should be toward NORM. The TEST position will turn all of the circuits to full all of the time, but the rack will have no control and will not display anything on the LCD. There is not an option for some circuits to be on and some to be operating normally as a dipswitch setting on any control module.

 

[mstaylor]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

If this is truly a Sensor+ Pack, then it will use a CEM+. The CEM+ has no user configurable dipswitches internally. There is a single switch that is labeled TEST NORM. It should be toward NORM. The TEST position will turn all of the circuits to full all of the time, but the rack will have no control and will not display anything on the LCD. There is not an option for some circuits to be on and some to be operating normally as a dipswitch setting on any control module.

But it still gives you a chopped wave that is bad for running movers, correct?

 

[starksk]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

But it still gives you a chopped wave that is bad for running movers, correct?

That is correct. The chopped sinewave is a function of the module's power cube. Even when on at full using the test mode, a standard D20 module will not produce a full sinewave and should not be used to power devices with electronic components that are sensitive to an incomplete sinewave of power.

 

[mstaylor]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

Thanks, I figured that but as often as we warn about not powering movers from dimmers, no matter the setting, people insist on it.

 

[DavidNorth]

Early next year, your solution would want to include this: http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs...070L1007_SR3_ThruPower_Module_Spec_Sht_vA.pdf
[EDIT by Mod: See revised: http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs...050L1033_SR3_ThruPower_Module_Spec_Sht_vB.pdf ]
With Sensor and Sensor+ racks, each circuit can be a dimmer or bypass relay as selected by the front panel switch.

With Sensor3 racks, through the control module and through ETC consoles connected over Net3, you can select one of 4 operating modes. Each circuit can be a dimmer, always on in bypass, on/off controlled relay, or a latching relay function. The new latching function requires you to set the channel to a specific level for several seconds to get the relay to kick on. To turn it off, you have to set the channel to a different prescribed level for several seconds. No more restriking of movers or homing of gel strings as you turn off your console to move it from the tech table back to the booth.

Each circuit in the dimmer has both a dimmer and a bypass relay. When the relay is on, the choke and the SSR power cube are bypassed. A fuse in line with each relay ensures 100kA SCCR for high fault current feeds.

Truly this is a new way to consider power management in the changing entertainment environment.

I typcally frown on advertising one's own products, and I appreciate the bandwidth, but in this case the solution is one that I think a lot of us can use on shows.

David

 

[mstaylor]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

Very interesting David. So in the new dimmers, three modes with be a form of chopped wave and the relay setting takes the choke out and makes it straight power, am I reading that correctly?

 

[epimetheus]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

Okay, DavidNorth, that's just awesome. Can you comment on pricing and availability compared to a D20 or D20E? My church is building a new Worship Center and we're currently in the value engineering stage trying to get the bids back under budget. This module might allow us to remove 50 or so 120V relay circuits and a Smartswitch or 2.

 

[derekleffew]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

From the PDF that DavidNorth cited:

...does not dim your intelligent lighting source.

Did STEVETERRY approve that ad copy?
And to think it only took 27 years to mimic a feature D192 had in 1985.

...and we're currently in the value engineering stage trying to get the bids back under budget. This module might allow us to remove 50 or so 120V relay circuits and a Smartswitch or 2.

Look at it this way: One online vendor lists MSRP for the D20AF module at $510, the D20 at $400, the R20 at $440, and the CC20 at $170. Of course, with each comes reduced convenience and ease-of-use. I think economically it makes more sense to have a rack populated with D20, and a supply of CC20 that can be deployed as needed. Either way, one still has to go to the dimmer room, either to flip a switch or swap a module. I suspect only the richest will be able to afford the luxury of all TR20AF modules. But it sure would be nice, from an end-user viewpoint.

 

[DavidNorth]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

Mstaylor: The three switching modes [Constant On, Switch, Latching] all bypass the choke and power cube thereby providing straight/clean power.

Epimetheus: You are looking at roughly a 30% adder on top of a D20 or D20E. At LDI, we had a number of consultants say the same thing that you're talking about. They posited that in each 48 module rack that they would put in about a dozen of these. I figure that it would be good to have a bunch on the first couple of electrics and then not so many in FOH. Depending on your cyc setup, you might want a stack of them there or none at all. If you think you're going to drop in some LED cyc units, put these modules in or have all relays.

Derrekleffew: I don't think Steve reviewed this, but sadly, not only did I review and edit it, but I wrote part of it...just not the part you quoted. Ugh.

David

 

[SteveB]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

I think it's an amazing idea and one that I wished I had been available before designing our soon-to-be-built facility. There are some huge advantages.

1) When you need a relay, you don't lose an adjacent dimmed circuit. That changes the design of a new system as you are not adding circuits simply to have stuff in useful pairs. Thus you potentially save wiring and boxes as well as attending installation costs, so I'd bet the added cost per module would pay for itself.

2) Makes any sized rental Sensor rack a simultaneous PD for 120v devices. That makes life so much easier for touring electricians (or anyone for that matter), as you can have your dedicated power on the next available circuit in the multi, for scrollers, whatever. Or if you really only need 1 of the 6 multi circuits as constant, you can get that and still have 5 dimmed circuits.

3) As a facility invests in LED's or 120v movers, you are not buying relays as well. So you save that cost down the road.

Nice job ETC !

 

[Chris15]

re: "All-On" switch for Sensor+ Dimmer

Jands have been making a similar product for a couple of months now in the more typical AU form factor... Jands - Overview