Altman Stage Lighting 360Q & 3.5Q Ellipsoidal Problem
- Thread startergmff
- Start date
More details please. "Brown and dim light" compared to what? A SourceFour? Your memory of how they used to be? Only 10 out of x fixtures, or your entire inventory? What lamp(s) are you using in the fixtures? At 100%, what is the voltage at the socket? (An easy way to measure: plug a twofer into the circuit, and plug the fixture into one of the females. [If qualified, and while using appropriate PPE] measure the voltage at the other female.)
JD
Well-Known Member
Still sounds like a lamp adjustment problem, not so much with centering the lamp in the reflector, but with the LCL (Lamp Center Length) or getting the filament at the right height from the socket cap. First, are you sure the correct lamps are in there? Different lamps will have different LCLs. also, I have seen fixtures where the socket was changed or modified and the lamp ends up at the wrong height.
There is a quick and dirty way of checking this at a very low dimmer setting, but unless you have a known good one to compare to, its hard to explain what to look for.
As Derek mentioned, you also can't compare the color of the fixture to a modern S4 or any other fixture that uses reflectors designed to clip the red end of the spectrum. These newer fixtures are not only more efficient, they have a more aesthetically pleasing white output.
There is a quick and dirty way of checking this at a very low dimmer setting, but unless you have a known good one to compare to, its hard to explain what to look for.
As Derek mentioned, you also can't compare the color of the fixture to a modern S4 or any other fixture that uses reflectors designed to clip the red end of the spectrum. These newer fixtures are not only more efficient, they have a more aesthetically pleasing white output.
Re: More Info
Going back to, apparently 1974, the lamps for the 360Q were EHC, EHD, EHG, EHF. The 1000W FEL was (and still is) used but the fixture was never listed for that wattage. For the 3.5Q it was the EHC, EHD only.
Today, most would recommend GLA, GLC, GLD, GLE, even for older fixtures. Search for 360Q lamps for more.
That may or may not help, depending on the age of both the fixtures and the info sheets.
Going back to, apparently 1974, the lamps for the 360Q were EHC, EHD, EHG, EHF. The 1000W FEL was (and still is) used but the fixture was never listed for that wattage. For the 3.5Q it was the EHC, EHD only.
Today, most would recommend GLA, GLC, GLD, GLE, even for older fixtures. Search for 360Q lamps for more.
Re: More Info
More interested in were these odd dim fixtures ever since you have seen them similar to the others? Or did they start out the same and now are dimmer than the others?
If they were and got dim recently since you have compared them that's one thing. If they are dimmer than the others and have always been that's another thing.
Green lenses, wrong lenses, bad reflectors, bad bases, old lamps, different lamps, out of bench focus?
First do the easy - loose termianals, bad contacts, other evidence of heat damage to plug, wiring or lampholder? While doing this, assuming all bases are good and not oxidized, arched or heat damaged, did you swap lamps or change lamps between?
Even simpler than that in crossing out the easy and possibilities and refining where the problem was, did you try swapping lamp caps between what's known to be good and what was known to be bad? Known to be bad lamp cap now looking just as bad means a lamp cap, lamp or bench focus problem with the fixture especially if the bad cap in the good fixture repeates the problem.
Nope the same problem in a good cap in a bad fixture looks just as bad and the suspect cap in the good fixture now looks good.
Easy enough to do and refines the problem down to either rear of the fixture or front of the fixture and reflector problem which is easier to solve no matter which type of fixtue is in use.
Once you know if it's cap and wiring with bench focus, verses reflector, gate and lens train problem you are half way there.
More interested in were these odd dim fixtures ever since you have seen them similar to the others? Or did they start out the same and now are dimmer than the others?
If they were and got dim recently since you have compared them that's one thing. If they are dimmer than the others and have always been that's another thing.
Green lenses, wrong lenses, bad reflectors, bad bases, old lamps, different lamps, out of bench focus?
First do the easy - loose termianals, bad contacts, other evidence of heat damage to plug, wiring or lampholder? While doing this, assuming all bases are good and not oxidized, arched or heat damaged, did you swap lamps or change lamps between?
Even simpler than that in crossing out the easy and possibilities and refining where the problem was, did you try swapping lamp caps between what's known to be good and what was known to be bad? Known to be bad lamp cap now looking just as bad means a lamp cap, lamp or bench focus problem with the fixture especially if the bad cap in the good fixture repeates the problem.
Nope the same problem in a good cap in a bad fixture looks just as bad and the suspect cap in the good fixture now looks good.
Easy enough to do and refines the problem down to either rear of the fixture or front of the fixture and reflector problem which is easier to solve no matter which type of fixtue is in use.
Once you know if it's cap and wiring with bench focus, verses reflector, gate and lens train problem you are half way there.
Sound like its just an old lamp replace lamp and see that you get.
Hi there, I am new to the forum as well as being new to the business. I have ten year old Ellipsoidals that haven't been cleaned since the theatre was built in 2002. I am curious what the best way to clean them is. Did you dismantle the entire unit? I have read on a couple of different sites that the best way to clean them is using warm soapy water which is great I just don't know if the lenses will dry efficiently enough if I rinse without completely dismantling.
Les
Well-Known Member
Usually, you want to completely remove all lenses and clean/dry them separately, as well as wiping down the reflector.
A water/denatured alcohol solution works on lenses while coffee filters work great for buffing them clean without streaking or leaving lint behind. Same for the reflector, generally, but it depends on what fixtures you have as some have coated lenses which could be damaged.
I wouldn't use soapy water or any dyed cleaner (like Windex) on any optics as this can bake on leaving your lenses cloudy or tinted in whatever color the cleaner is.
What types of ellipsoidals do you have?
kicknargel
Well-Known Member
What he said. Also, welcome to the forum. Also, not to start quibbling right away, but unless a direct continuation of and old topic, it's generally best to start a new thread, lest we all start re-litigating old arguments.
I normally use a like Viniager Windex soap to remove the dirt/etc, and denaturatured alcohol to remove an soap residue. But it does deepend on the fixture type - soap don't always get along with soap or even denatured alcohol.
General thoughts back to high school science class - soap is a dirt lifting thing that seperates it from what it's on so as to be removed, denatured alcohol is a vehicle and while it helps, in general it more makes smeared mud if what is wiped is dirty in picking up some. Neither are really best for dichroic coatings, but overall clean is different than just spreading it around. If dichroic coatings, dry wiping is often good but I wonder about the friction even of a chem whipe on them. Different department once one gets into Dichroic lenses in how they handle them mostly in not knowing.
Also a question of 2002, what type of dirt is on the lenses and reflectors? Lots of smoke and or haze fluid - water basted or oil based? These could also be factors in what I used and how I cleaned them. Cigarette smoke is nasty to remove... etc.
On the old topic, lenses reversed might be another thought - though more doubtful. Interesting problem I would want to see in figuring out but first again start with the easy, change the lamp cap and even lens trains with known to be good gear one at a time for trial. Do the simple first. This than will refine where the problem is.
General thoughts back to high school science class - soap is a dirt lifting thing that seperates it from what it's on so as to be removed, denatured alcohol is a vehicle and while it helps, in general it more makes smeared mud if what is wiped is dirty in picking up some. Neither are really best for dichroic coatings, but overall clean is different than just spreading it around. If dichroic coatings, dry wiping is often good but I wonder about the friction even of a chem whipe on them. Different department once one gets into Dichroic lenses in how they handle them mostly in not knowing.
Also a question of 2002, what type of dirt is on the lenses and reflectors? Lots of smoke and or haze fluid - water basted or oil based? These could also be factors in what I used and how I cleaned them. Cigarette smoke is nasty to remove... etc.
On the old topic, lenses reversed might be another thought - though more doubtful. Interesting problem I would want to see in figuring out but first again start with the easy, change the lamp cap and even lens trains with known to be good gear one at a time for trial. Do the simple first. This than will refine where the problem is.
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