The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

Apollo's new color mixing scroller!

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by derekleffew, Dec 25, 2007.

  1. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Apollo has, finally, introduced the MXR, "a two-string gel color mixer with a color selection and frame sequence designed to maximize useful colors," according to the January 2008 issue of Stage Directions. It's not yet on Apollo's website, but I'm sure our friend Kelite will be glad to let us know all about it after the holidays. I haven't been this excited about a color scroller since, well, the CXI from Wybron.;) For anyone considering buying scrollers, spend the extra money and get color mixing ones--you won't be sorry.
     
  2. STEVETERRY

    STEVETERRY Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    719
    Location:
    New York
    Just as Robert Heinlein said: "Tanstaafl". There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    Some things to be aware of with any two-gelstring mixing color scroller:

    1. There is significant light loss when compared to a scroller that creates the same color with a single gel.

    2. When fading from color-to-color a vista, one may have to create DMX "waypoints" in the fade to make sure the scroller does not pass through unintended" (ugly) colors in the middle of the fade. The shortest point between two colors in a fade is not always the best looking. This can add to programming time.

    Keeping these two points in mind, these are very useful tools.

    ST
     
  3. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    2,441
    Likes Received:
    341
    Location:
    New York City
    I still love my Morpheus M-Faders!
     
  4. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    46
    What page is this on? I apparently now receive Stage Directions.

    The multi page spread on High School Musical was a nice touch.
     
  5. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    The issue after the one featuring HSM, I rec'd it on 12/24. January 2008 issue of Stage Directions, Little Mermaid on the cover, page 12. The article says Apollo exhibited the GelMiser and MXR at LDI in November in Orlando. And Kelite didn't tell us this, or perhaps he was uncomfortable touting his own new products, so I have opened the door for him. In any case, it's nice to know we have a representative of a (the) major manufacturer logging in to Control Booth on Christmas Day *cough*ETC*cough*STEVETERRY*cough*.:)
     
  6. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    250
    Location:
    Fort Wayne IN, USA
    As usual, The ControlBooth brings news and helpful tips to the reader in short order. Yes Derek, we're excited about the MXR Color Mixing Scroller, and I really don't show up here at the forum to push anyone's product line. I do thank you for the kind introduction of this useful device.

    And Steve has hit the nail on the head in pointing out the inherent drawback of color mixing. Whether gel or dichroic media (short of a fixed color wheel with desired colors side-by-side), the transition to the desired hue will pass though other colors. These colors may be undesirable to you while being highly desirable to the next designer. Ahh.... art. It's that whole 'beauty in the eyes of the beholder' mentality. :)

    Designer foresight is imperative when mixing any color system, allowing the audience to view only the saturations you desire. Fortunately for all of us, dimmers make that a real possibility!

    And I hope you and all CB'ers had a joyous time with family and dear friends during this Christmas holiday.
     
  7. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,616
    Likes Received:
    2,631
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    For a point of comparison...
    A Seachanger cuts the total lumen output of a 26 degree Source 4 with an HPL 750 lamp down from around 20,000 lumens to about 9,500 lumens in White.
     
  8. STEVETERRY

    STEVETERRY Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    719
    Location:
    New York

    Errr...Field lumens on a 26 degree with HPL 750W are 13,960.

    ST
     
  9. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Well, what do you know, STEVETERRY is correct!;), according to this pdf. ETC seems to have revised all spec sheets for the Source Four™, as of 12/2007, so time to re-download, again. SteveT, is this revision gonna affect my Photometric Spreadsheet?

    Gafftaper and/or the SeaChanger folks, were apparently confusing "initial lumens" with "field lumens."

    Edit: SeaChanger Specs site says: "White light output: 9,500 lumens total system output (SeaChanger +26° Source Four with 750 W HPL lamp)" Shame on SeaChanger for not specifying "field lumens" (I hope!) 68% [9500/13960] of the light is more acceptable than 43% [9500/21900].
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2007
  10. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,077
    Likes Received:
    682
    Occupation:
    Controls Technician - TAIT Towers
    Location:
    Lititz, PA
    But theoretically in a clear frame in the scroller you should loose virtually no output.
     
  11. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,616
    Likes Received:
    2,631
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    Thanks for clarifying that guys I was a little unsure about the whole output issue and the Seachanger data I had was limited on exactly what they meant.
     
  12. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Not true, icewolf08. Also have to take into account the heat shield, and in the case of CXi and MXR, two pieces of clear media. Hopefully lose less than the 32% as with the SeaChanger, I would hope in the area of 5-10% (depending on how scratched/dusty/haze-laden the leaders become).

    Pie4Weebl, one of things I disliked about the M-Faders were the holes that seem to be a magnet for any/all particulates in the air. Well, that and three times the maintenance of a single gelstring scroller. But a great concept.
     
  13. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,077
    Likes Received:
    682
    Occupation:
    Controls Technician - TAIT Towers
    Location:
    Lititz, PA
    Hence why I said "virtually." I suppose this is the one advantage to the ETC Revolution scroller where the leaders are only a 1" strip of clear gel as opposed to an entire frame... But, assuming you have clean gel (hey charc will you go wash this gel for me... while you are in the closet... the one we locked you in...) you hopefully don't lose 5,500 lumens like the SeaChanger (according to Gaff's specs).
     
  14. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Now, the Revolution has more than one advantage.

    But how does one get white, (OW, NC, N/C, CLR), without a frame of R00 (kelite, why can't I find the Apollo equivalent?) in the Revolution's scroller?
     
  15. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,077
    Likes Received:
    682
    Occupation:
    Controls Technician - TAIT Towers
    Location:
    Lititz, PA
    I said the advantage to the Rev's scroller. At least the original scroller, I haven't used the new Rev's with the Wybron scrollers. I personally don't mind using Revs. They have quirks as many MLs do, but they do what they are designed to do very well.

    How you you get white? I assume you mean in the Revs. Well the scroller rolls out the leader as a frame on either end of the gel string. So frame 0 (DMX value of 000) is CLR by default, no matter what your rev gel sting is. Also the last frame, DMX value 255, is CLR by default as it is leader also. If you want I can take a picture when we take the Revs out of the air this evening. Steve Terry can probably back me up on this one as well.
     
  16. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Nope, still confused, You said originally: "...I suppose this is the one advantage to the ETC Revolution scroller where the leaders are only a 1" strip of clear gel as opposed to an entire frame." Now you're saying: "Well the scroller rolls out the leader as a frame on either end of the gel string." I'm not being argumentative, just dense. I don't need a picture, I've worked with lots of scrollers, so unless the Rev's orig. scroller is dramatically different, I'll just ignore the part about the leader being only 1" and get over it.

    But since you brought up STEVETERRY, do you think it's possible we'll see a Revolution with a Wybron CXI Inside™ in the near future?
     
  17. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,077
    Likes Received:
    682
    Occupation:
    Controls Technician - TAIT Towers
    Location:
    Lititz, PA
    I was going to do ASCII art, but CB won't keep all the spaces... so here are some pictures.

    The leaders, made from clear gel serve as clear frames at both ends of the gel string. Here are cutouts from the Revolution Manual. I hope they help:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So it lis a little bit of a PITA to change strings due to the "weave and pin" connection, but it works.
     
  18. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    2,846
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Thank you Alex, I understand completely now. I guess I DID need a picture.:) Unlike any other scroller I have ever seen. I think Morpheus ColorFaders use a "tapered edge", but nothing like that. I'm almost positive this has changed with the SourceFour™ Revolution Wybron Inside™.
     
  19. STEVETERRY

    STEVETERRY Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    719
    Location:
    New York
    Sadly, no. When we made the change to the Wybron scoller, we spent hundreds of hours on a CXI design. We really worked at it, along with Wybron. Bottom line: there were just too many compromises to accept having to do with the additional depth of the unit and the increased drive torque and power consumption. Had we done it, you would have hated it--so we reluctantly abandoned it.

    ST
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2007
  20. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,077
    Likes Received:
    682
    Occupation:
    Controls Technician - TAIT Towers
    Location:
    Lititz, PA
    What about a CMY module? That seems more feasible, though possibly overkill given that we already have a scroller.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice