Design Architectural Lighting moving forward (?)

[JD]

Food for thought. I do accounting for a church that is coming due for a re-lamp in the sanctuary. The system uses a 50k architectural dimmer system (haven't looked at it in about 10 years, but basic back-to-back SCR, analog) feeding about 36k of lamps throughout the sanctuary. Most of the lamps are A21, R30, PAR38, with a few R52's in the mix for high downlights. Now, we know what is going to happen to the A21s by 2012, and many other incandescent as well. Their intent had been to replace the A21s with CFLs, so I explained that most CFLs should/can not be run off of dimmers, which they (the church) love to use. My suggestion was to stock up on enough bulbs to do two re-lamps and put the issue off for now.

That got me thinking.... With thousands of locations facing the same problem I am surprised that a common trending has not been established yet. By that, I am referring to the fact that most churches use fixtures that have to fit aesthetically, as well as supply the warm incandescence light they are used to, and also be dimmable. The current roster of LED and dimmable CFLs do not fit the aesthetics the application calls for. Anybody have any insight as to where we are going or trending?

 

[Esoteric]

I have several LED units I use that fit all those criteria. In fact, right now I have a bid out to do a LED house light renovation on a 3000 seat sanctuary with 40' ceilings, and another for a 200 seat worship center with 10 drop ceilings, and several other bids in between.

LEDs are ceratinly useable for house lighting, architectural lighting, office lighting, parking lot lighting, and many, many other applications.

Mike

 

[zmb]

Could you change some dimmers to relays to use CFLs if the church was fine with it?

 

[jmcgregor]

Look here for a great solution for LED houselighting:

Downlights - Decorative Series

 

[ajb]

With thousands of locations facing the same problem I am surprised that a common trending has not been established yet. By that, I am referring to the fact that most churches use fixtures that have to fit aesthetically, as well as supply the warm incandescence light they are used to, and also be dimmable.

Sure, this category includes lots of institutions, but there are probably ten or a hundred times that number of institutions for which non-dim fluorescent, HID, or specialty LED fixtures are a great solution (stores, offices, factories, etc.) in terms of performance characteristics and efficiency. So relatively speaking, the market for the fixtures you describe isn't all that big.

If you're willing to replace the dimmers as well, you can go fluorescent (not CFL) and get some decent dimming--just not in the very bottom end, which I imagine is a fine trade-off for most church applications. We have some Lutron fluorescent dimmers here that do fine--and even running some dimmable battery ballasts, so they can cover your emergency lighting needs as well. Color temp can be tricky, though, as with any fluorescent installation.

Some drop-in LED fixtures can be dimmed with standard SCR phase control dimmers (depends on what's between the input terminals and the LEDs), but they have the opposite problem from dimmable fluorescents--they can never fully turn off due to SCR leakage current. But if you put enough LED fixtures on a dimmer, the leakage current will be so low when split among all of the fixtures it won't be noticeable. An IGBT dimmer would be a better option (lower leakage current) and if it's a PWM (sine wave) dimmer, you'll get a better dimming curve as well.

 

[CSCTech]

Sorry to be off topic, but I am a bit behind on the incandescent ban. By 2014/2012 (I have seen two dates) when they are banned what are our alternatives to to these bulbs? Personally it does not very much effect me or our theatre, except for our stairlights use normal incandescent bulbs. Are their certain kinds that are not being banned? Also, what other kinds of lamps are part of the ban? Are Halogens still okay or is that still going. Also what about par lamps, which we use in our house lighting.

Thanks.

 

[Les]

I don't think the OP would be okay with trading dimming modules for relay modules in the sanctuary. It was noted that dimming was very important to them and I can see why. The church I attend seems to toggle between the 20-50% range, so I would wager that low-level dimming is also crucial -- which is unfortunately where CFL's get iffy. Also, the OP noted that the warmth is critical. I am guessing that he is referring to the phenomenon we call "amber-drift". That doesn't happen with CFL's either. They seem to get cooler as they dim in fact. High quality LED's are an option. Some even have amber-drift algorithms. Even if not, the "true white" LED's are at least warm in color temp. For now, maybe A21 base halogen lamps may be an option. Halogen lamps are not affected by the ban at this time. PAR's are also exempt, since they use internal halogen capsules. "R" and "BR" lamps unfortunately fall into the banned category.

 

[DELO72]

The ban is entirely based on Lumen per watt and the efficacy of the lamp. Incandescent lamps are very low (10-15 LPW) and so the ban is phasing them out, starting with the higher wattage (100w) ones. Tungsten Halogen lamps have much higher efficacy due to the Halogen/Bromine fill, and will not be affected by this ban. (They are in the 20-28 LPW range). Also- the ban is in regards to general illumination product only (for residential and commercial lighting), so Theatrical/Entertainment/Specialty market product is exempt.

From Wikipedia: "Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 in December 2007, requiring all general-purpose light bulbs that produce 310–2600 lumens of light [27] be 30% more energy efficient (similar to current halogen lamps) than current incandescent bulbs by 2012 to 2014. The efficiency standards will start with 100-watt bulbs in January 2012 and end with 40-watt bulbs in January 2014.

Light bulbs outside of this range are exempt from the restrictions (historically, less than 40 Watts or more than 150 Watts). Also exempt are several classes of specialty lights, including appliance lamps, "rough service" bulbs, 3-way, colored lamps, and plant lights.

By 2020, a second tier of restrictions would become effective; which requires all general-purpose bulbs to produce at least 45 lumens per watt (similar to current CFLs). Exempt from the Act are reflector "flood", 3-way, candelabra, colored, and other specialty bulbs"