Microphones AT 3031 alternatives and piano mic?

[gafftaper]

1) I have a friend who is getting some new gear. I suggested that he get a couple of AT 3031's for its great all around versatility. However, I have discovered that it's been discontinued since I last purchased them. Apparently, they cut some corners to make the cheaper 2021 and added some features (and $250) to make the 4041. Is the 2021 a decent alternative?

2) What alternatives to the AT3031 would you suggest from other manufacturers in the sub $200 price range? The goal is a condenser mic that is low profile and versatile.

3) What's your favorite reasonably priced mic for a grand piano?

4) I've heard of a fairly reasonably priced mic that you screw to the underside of the piano. Are these good? What is a good choice?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[FMEng]

I've had nice results with Shure KSM141, KSM137, Audix SCX1C. For a tight budget, the AT Pro37 is decent.

For high stage levels, where isolation might be needed, a pair of AKG (was Crown) PZM-6D gaff taped to the closed lid works, but they are tricky to place and the sound is not as natural as open lid.

Screwing mics to lids seems too destructive to do to most grand pianos. I wouldn't do that.

 

[neotrotsky]

When it comes to mic'ing a piano, it depends on what kind. When it comes to grand pianos, most of my piano work is with live Jazz (since musicians pay the bills better than theaters in the off season), so I have many particular factors when setting a grand for live sound. My preferred choice comes from several years of experimentation and application, but after a long hunt I have found a configuration that works great for my tastes and for the interests of the musician. Now, remember that not every mic technique will work on every piano in every venue. Even the manufacture of piano can alter the characteristics!

My Setup for my home venue:
Piano- Mid 80's Baldwin 7' Grand piano (on casters)
Configuration- Full stick, soundboard to audience at either an angle or perpendicular (depending on if it's a trio/quartet/quintet or a Big Band
Mics- Shure SM 81 (2), two telescoping boom stands

The placement is somewhat tricky. The mics are set up in a shallow X/Y configuration over the edge of the soundboard/harp line. Orient the mics parallel with the harp pegs just over the strings (about 3-4 inches in). Allignment is critical since you want equal pitch on the mics but a shallow enough angle to cover the most of the area without the field getting too much of the external noise from outside of the piano. The biggest problem is when people mic a piano, they think one mic will cover everything, but the piano is a very dynamic instrument. It's difficult to EQ without sounding harsh or booming on either end when you go with a solo mic. The best way to attack so many dynamics within one insturment is to approach it the same way you would having to mic a large group of frequencies while needing to establish a stereo segregation, such as in a choir. So, by going with a stereo configuration you are able to isolate the highs and lows without sacrificing quality.

The SM81's, while a workhorse for condenser mics, are also well suited to this because of the bass roll-off switch built in @ -6 and -16 dB/Octave respectively and a -10dB pad. These two options are GREAT for eliminating rumble and excess noise from other sounds that could seep in (such as from a Bass when the piano is used in a rhythm section either in a pit or in a Big Band). But, the downside is that those mics are about $300 each.

But, you can go with a PG 81 which can be had for about $100 to $135 depending on where you look. You don't have as much frequency response (you lose 20Hz on the low end and 2KHz on the high end) and you don't have the PAD or the Bass Roll-Off, but they will provide a VERY clear sound, and have a multitude of other applications that you can easily justify. When it comes to buying new kit, that always helps!

 

[gafftaper]

Thanks, I should clarify a bit more about the piano. This is a high school performing arts center which is used 5 nights a week for both school activites and outside rentals. The piano is a small grand which has definitely seen it's better days. The room is not that great acoustically. The piano is often played by students or other non-professionals who don't play all that loud so reinforcement is desperately needed. Finally, half the time the microphones are being setup and operated by student crew who have little training, so fool proof, easy setup is important too.

 

[neotrotsky]

Thanks, I should clarify a bit more about the piano. This is a high school performing arts center which is used 5 nights a week for both school activites and outside rentals. The piano is a small grand which has definitely seen it's better days. The room is not that great acoustically. The piano is often played by students or other non-professionals who don't play all that loud so reinforcement is desperately needed. Finally, half the time the microphones are being setup and operated by student crew who have little training, so fool proof, easy setup is important too.

There is no such thing as "fool-proof" and "perfect" in the same sentece when it comes to mic placement. Your sound is only as strong as your weakest link in the signal flow. Besides, show the students what it should look like and it won't be hard for them to set up. They just need to know what they are looking at and I'm sure they'll get it pretty good. An X/Y is perfect for a room that has poor acoustics and performers who are not pros. Gives you more control of the overall signal to boost when needed.

 

[MarshallPope]

On a budget, I have had good luck with a pair of Sennheiser e609s taped to a stick inside my church's 9' Baldwin. If I remember correctly, I paid $150-200 for the pair of them. They are side-address, so they work nicely inside the piano with the lid closed. I have also had good luck with a sm58 inside for highs and a pg81 under for lows. I tried to have pg81s both in and under or both in, but an 81 inside the piano was constantly on the verge of feedback.

 

[gafftaper]

Thanks Neotrotsky for all the good advice on piano mics. A set of PG81's sounds like a great solution for the piano that is well within my friend's budget range.

Stepping away from pianos and thinking more general, does anyone have further recommendations on alternatives to the now discontinued AT 3031. I had a set of AT3031's at my old theater. From strings and acoustic guitars, to hanging it to boost an actor's voice in a partially on/off stage hallway of a set, it seemed like the 3031 could be used for just about anything and always sound great. Price should be around $150-$175 max.

The PG81 looks pretty versatile, should he buy a few extras of them for other uses? The AT PRO37 was mentioned above where does it fit in the mix? Then there's what AT replaced the 3031 with, the 2021 on the low end (anyone know what corners they cut from the 3031 to get the price down?) and the 4041 on the high end. The 4041 is probably out of my friend's budget range... is it worth cutting some other gear in order to step up to this level of mic?

 

[FMEng]

The 3031 is a cardioid, small diaphram, condenser, with a nearly ruler flat frequency response. That description fits all of the mics you mention, along with a bunch more. The sonic differences between them will be subtle and there isn't a wrong choice in the bunch. For the kinds of uses you have, you don't need big $$$ differences like lower self noise and super high SPL capability.

The big cost saving difference between the 3031 and the 2021 is the lack of attenuator and bass roll-off switches, neither of which are needed under most circumstances. Most modern consoles have a high-pass switch and ample preamp adjustment.

 

[TimmyP1955]

I have SCX1s. If they walked off I'd get AT Pro37s - a nice mic for many uses, very affordable. Or eBay some AT 2025s (or 3031s).