Auditorium Lighting Upgrades. Your opinion(s)?

[kylethegeek]

So, I was approached today by my TD, and the auditorium director, and I was told that the district board (who controls all of the budgets for the auditorium) wanted to know how the auditorium was to get better. We replaced the audio systems last year, with a Yamaha M7CL, and reconfigured all of equalizers, and added some new amps. As we did that, and we are trying to improve the tech side of the auditorium, lighting is next. We are being asked to get a general budget going for the project.
So, my questions to you are

• What are our options for a new console
• What are the best intelligent lighting fixtures?

Here is some background information. We are a medium sized, high school auditorium. We can seat 856 people. We have 156 (ish... not sure) dimmers. We have 2 catwalks. The first catwalk has 20(ish) citcuits, and the second one (closest to the stage) has 16(ish) circuits. We have 2 sides for lighting, with 4 circuits on each side. We have 3 electrics. I'm not sure how many circuits are on each one.

This is a high school, and because of this, we are looking for a console that doesn't have a big learning curve attached to it. We currently have an ETC Express 48/96. I don't know our limits as of yet for the console, and fixtures.
Any opinions would be appreciated!

 

[techieman33]

So, I was approached today by my TD, and the auditorium director, and I was told that the district board (who controls all of the budgets for the auditorium) wanted to know how the auditorium was to get better. We replaced the audio systems last year, with a Yamaha M7CL, and reconfigured all of equalizers, and added some new amps. As we did that, and we are trying to improve the tech side of the auditorium, lighting is next. We are being asked to get a general budget going for the project.
So, my questions to you are

• What are our options for a new console
• What are the best intelligent lighting fixtures?

Here is some background information. We are a medium sized, high school auditorium. We can seat 856 people. We have 156 (ish... not sure) dimmers. We have 2 catwalks. The first catwalk has 20(ish) outputs, and the second one (closest to the stage) has 16(ish) outputs. We have 2 sides for lighting, with 4 outputs on each side. We have 3 electrics. I'm not sure how many outputs are on each one.

This is a high school, and because of this, we are looking for a console that doesn't have a big learning curve attached to it. We currently have an ETC Express 48/96. I don't know our limits as of yet for the console, and fixtures.
Any opinions would be appreciated!

What do you have now in terms of lights? Did they give you any kind of a ballpark for the budget? $10,000 and $100,000 will lead to very different answers.

 

[kylethegeek]

Right now, we have somewhere in the area of 50 ETC Source Four Leko's, give or take, about 25, possibly 50 Altman fixtures (Not sure... we moved most of them into storage, as they weren't as bright as the Leko's) We have about 10 ETC Source Four Par's, serving as work lights, about 10 ETC (?) Scoops, not sure what those are... we don't really work with them all that often, they're just on the first and second electric. We have 4 Altman SkyCycs on the 3rd electric.
For the most part, ETC Source Four Leko's.
I don't know what our budget is. That's what we're looking at getting to them. I'd say somewhere around $25,000-75,000. At most, $150,000.

 

[MNicolai]

Is that budget based on numbers you've been told by someone of authority or are those estimates you've made?

I ask because I remember being in high school, dreaming up expensive projects others had asked me to look into, only to discover their financial pain threshold was 1/10th the amount the project would've ended up costing. I did have a few projects go through, but certainly not all of them and the ones priced above $20k were several month to several year progressions.

I mean, part of doing the research is that you find out what it [would] cost to do it right, but if you start tossing around $100k when they were thinking $15k, you could end up with nothing because they'll be so scared by the sticker shock. Whereas if you tell them $25k, they may come up to $20k and ask "How much can we get for this?"

 

[kylethegeek]

Is that budget based on numbers you've been told by someone of authority or are those estimates you've made?

I ask because I remember being in high school, dreaming up expensive projects others had asked me to look into, only to discover their financial pain threshold was 1/10th the amount the project would've ended up costing. I did have a few projects go through, but certainly not all of them and the ones priced above $20k were several month to several year progressions.

I mean, part of doing the research is that you find out what it [would] cost to do it right, but if you start tossing around $100k when they were thinking $15k, you could end up with nothing because they'll be so scared by the sticker shock. Whereas if you tell them $25k, they may come up to $20k and ask "How much can we get for this?"

Educated guesses. No way have these been set in stone, or have I been told this. I know we have the funds available. What we can use of it, is something that I do not know.

 

[derekleffew]

• What are our options for a new console? ...

This is a high school, and because of this, we are looking for a console that doesn't have a big learning curve attached to it. We currently have an ETC Express 48/96. ...

There is no modern, moving light capable, console that DOES NOT "have a big learning curve attached to it." Granted some are easier to learn than others. Many/most here will state that, since you are familiar with the Express, sticking with ETC and going to Element or Ion would be the least painful upgrade path.

• What are the best intelligent lighting fixtures?

Again, once you add moving lights (there's nothing intelligent about them) and/or LEDs, you've increased the complexity considerably. It sounds to me like you don't know how to make the best use of the conventional fixtures you have, considering "we moved most of them into storage, as they weren't as bright as the Leko's". See Gafftaper Method - ControlBooth .

To directly answer your question: Arguably, "the best intelligent lighting fixtures" are the Vari-Lite VL3515 Spot and VL3500 Wash FX . They cost around $15,000 each, weight 80-100 lbs., require 208V power, and I would never recommend the purchase of these for any educational institution.

-----

... The first catwalk has 20(ish) outputs, and the second one ... has 16(ish) outputs. ... with 4 outputs on each side. ... I'm not sure how many outputs are on each one. ...

If you wish to appear learned, call them circuit s, dimmer s, or receptacle s, not output s.

... We have 2 catwalks. The first catwalk has 20(ish) citcuits, and the second one (closest to the stage) has 16(ish) circuits. ...

Most would refer to the catwalk closer to the plaster line as the First Catwalk / Ante Pro #1 / FOH #1; and the farther (from the stage) one as #2.

... We have 2 sides for lighting, with 4 circuits on each side. ...

Box Boom positions.

.

 

[kylethegeek]

There is no modern, moving light capable, console that DOES NOT "have a big learning curve attached to it." Granted some are easier to learn than others. Many/most here will state that, since you are familiar with the Express, sticking with ETC and going to Element or Ion would be the least painful upgrade path.

Again, once you add moving lights (there's nothing intelligent about them) and/or LEDs, you've increased the complexity considerably. It sounds to me like you don't know how to make the best use of the conventional fixtures you have, considering "we moved most of them into storage, as they weren't as bright as the Leko's". See Gafftaper Method - ControlBooth .

To directly answer your question: Arguably, "the best intelligent lighting fixtures" are the Vari-Lite VL3515 Spot and VL3500 Wash FX . They cost around $15,000 each, weight 80-100 lbs., require 208V power, and I would never recommend the purchase of these for any educational institution.

-----
If you wish to appear learned, call them circuit s, dimmer s, or receptacle s, not output s.

.

Alright. I was looking at the with ETC consoles.
We actually moved the Altmans, as we have maxed out all of our dimmers on the first and second catwalks (oops... I couldn't think of the word when I was typing it) and we do use them occasionally, but we use the Source Fours as much as we can.
I should rephrase that question. What are the best moving lights for an educational building, that are more cost effective (Such as $500-$1,500)

I'm just trying to look for ideas. I don't actually know what our budget is, but I'm trying to look at the best options for our circumstances.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

I would want to use the scoops as work lights, and the Source 4 PAR's for actual productions, but thats just me.

 

[kylethegeek]

I would want to use the scoops as work lights, and the Source 4 PAR's for actual productions, but thats just me.

That's not in my control. My TD insists that we use the PAR's for his work lights. One of these days, we will get around to installing new work lights. I should bring that up, actually.

 

[venuetech]

look at getting an ICue or two each with a new source4 fixture.
after that the next project could be to get one or two RightArm's each with a new fixture.
both are simple solutions that can quickly solve the need to highlight an area.
The Icues will need dmx and a powersupply.

you will be going to these fixtures time and time again to solve various issues.

are they simple? Yes they are. just remember Simple Works.

 

[Cooperhodges]

I would highly recommend going with ETC. Even if used, ETC is leagues beyond the competition. That being said, I have a ETC SmartFade, and I have been able to teach people the basics within a few hours. There are two sizes of SmartFades, so you have the option to pick which one suits your needs the best. I have also heard great reviews of ETC's Express and Element consoles.

As far as lighting fixtures go, for static lights, I wouldn't buy anything but ETC's Source Four line. I have had great experience with The S4 Par's and ParNels. A cheaper option could be to go with ParCans- they can seem flimsy, but the truth is that they're cheap, and last for ages. Elation has decent moving heads you could go with too. If you're looking for LED's, look into ETC's Selador lines, specifically the D40 or D60's.

 

[kylethegeek]

look at getting an ICue or two each with a new source4 fixture.
after that the next project could be to get one or two RightArm's each with a new fixture.
both are simple solutions that can quickly solve the need to highlight an area.
The Icues will need dmx and a powersupply.

you will be going to these fixtures time and time again to solve various issues.

are they simple? Yes they are. just remember Simple Works.

I see...
Those look pretty cool. We could have used those. I'll have to see what my TD thinks! Thanks!

 

[kylethegeek]

I would highly recommend going with ETC. Even if used, ETC is leagues beyond the competition. That being said, I have a ETC SmartFade, and I have been able to teach people the basics within a few hours. There are two sizes of SmartFades, so you have the option to pick which one suits your needs the best. I have also heard great reviews of ETC's Express and Element consoles.

As far as lighting fixtures go, for static lights, I wouldn't buy anything but ETC's Source Four line. I have had great experience with The S4 Par's and ParNels. A cheaper option could be to go with ParCans- they can seem flimsy, but the truth is that they're cheap, and last for ages. Elation has decent moving heads you could go with too. If you're looking for LED's, look into ETC's Selador lines, specifically the D40 or D60's.

Alright. I'll look into those. Thanks!

 

[danTt]

I would highly recommend going with ETC. Even if used, ETC is leagues beyond the competition. That being said, I have a ETC SmartFade, and I have been able to teach people the basics within a few hours. There are two sizes of SmartFades, so you have the option to pick which one suits your needs the best. I have also heard great reviews of ETC's Express and Element consoles.

As far as lighting fixtures go, for static lights, I wouldn't buy anything but ETC's Source Four line. I have had great experience with The S4 Par's and ParNels. A cheaper option could be to go with ParCans- they can seem flimsy, but the truth is that they're cheap, and last for ages. Elation has decent moving heads you could go with too. If you're looking for LED's, look into ETC's Selador lines, specifically the D40 or D60's.

The smartfade is in many ways a downgrade from their current express. I would certainly not recommend spending the money on one in any respect. The element on the other hand is probably everything you will need, given the current shape of your department and what it seems like you have done and will do.

 

[kylethegeek]

The smartfade is in many ways a downgrade from their current express. I would certainly not recommend spending the money on one in any respect. The element on the other hand is probably everything you will need, given the current shape of your department and what it seems like you have done and will do.

Oh, alright. I think the best option would be either an Ion or Element at the moment, looking at what we have.

 

[Cooperhodges]

I actually just noticed your budget. My dept. got the smartfade because of budget problems. If you have the money, definitely upgrade to an Express or Element.

 

[kylethegeek]

I actually just noticed your budget. My dept. got the smartfade because of budget problems. If you have the money, definitely upgrade to an Express or Element.

We currently have an Express 48/96. That's an estimate budget. I don't know how much we will actually get into this project.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Since budget it likely (always) an issue. ETC Selador LED's may be out of the question. Also look at the Altman Spectra series for a middle range LED option, or at Chauvet. Perhaps even fighting the temptation to go LED, but purchasing accessories for your existing inventory, such as Apollo Right Arms, Rosco I-Cues, or Seachangers may be a better investment.

If the budget is even smaller, a proper maintenance call of your existing inventory can do wonders. It's amazing how much easier it is to work with a light that has all its knobs, bolts and lenses or fresh sockets and shutters.

 

[kylethegeek]

Since budget it likely (always) an issue. ETC Selador LED's may be out of the question. Also look at the Altman Spectra series for a middle range LED option, or at Chauvet. Perhaps even fighting the temptation to go LED, but purchasing accessories for your existing inventory, such as Apollo Right Arms, Rosco I-Cues, or Seachangers may be a better investment.

If the budget is even smaller, a proper maintenance call of your existing inventory can do wonders. It's amazing how much easier it is to work with a light that has all its knobs, bolts and lenses or fresh sockets and shutters.

mmmm. I'll have to find out how much those cost, and what I can do. We just got some new Gam Film/FX Gobo rotators, so I'll have to see how those work out for us.

 

[kicknargel]

Kargel's rant:

If you have five or six figures of capital money, use the first of it to hire a professional designer/consultant (who is NOT the one selling you the equipment) to provide advice. Or maybe you can get someone to donate a few hours.

I agree that you're not getting enough use out of your conventional system to warrant adding moving lights. Totally ballpark, but I'd say your space should be running around 200 conventionals, so I'd get those old ones in good shape, or get some more S4 lekos and wash units. And BTW, if you're not heavy into moving lights, I would argue that there's no reason to upgrade from Express. It's a great conventional console.