Best LEDs for small theaters

T

theatrelighting

Member
Hi all,
I work in a small theater (about 200 seats with an 11.5' grid) with a limited amount of dimmers, and I was asked for a list of suggestions to purchase new equipment. I want to get a system of toplight LED wash so that the theater can say they're "going green", but I really want to conserve dimmers while providing a big range of colors that I can put on stage, depending on the event going on. Does anybody have any suggestions for this application? The LEDs would need a large enough beam angle for the low grid, but enough of a punch and color range. Let me know some more expensive high-end products (i.e. ETC LEDs) and some cheaper, but quality LEDs (i.e. colorblasts)
Just so you know, the theater is also looking into purchasing an Element or Ion.

Thanks so much
 
Ummm, The ETC Vivd- R is probably one of my Favorite things on the market today. For the money It's got a great throw distance, good color range and it will play well with either the Element or the Ion. I'm not really sold on the Palletto line, because it looks great on paper but the color range feels kind of weird in actual performance. If you are working in a smaller venue the Altman Spectra Cyc/ Par has some great color, but lacks the punch. It seems like at the Grid heights your working at that might be the way to go, but be careful the price point is not the greatest. For low end stuff, I really like Elation OPTI -RGB, low punch but good color in dark spaces and the Elation Tri-Par stuff seems to be doing pretty well right now. Chavet is well, .....Chavet, I'd avoid anything but the Colorado 2 and the Colorardo3. The cool thing that i haven't gotten a chance to play with yet is the Pixel Range stuff. The dimming on those is supposed to match the dimming on an ETC Sensor. Which, is a really cool thing. If anybody out there has gotten a chance to Play with anything Pixel range they're worth talking to.

That's two Pennies from me.
 
I second the etc selador line. You get much nicer colors with 7 LED colors. AND they have a good dimmer curve. (I don't personally have an issue with the paletta ), if you end up looking at other brands due to cost I would suggest you look at
Dimming curve - As you fade up from low levels is it a smooth curve or can you see it step. Stepping is a problem that you will have to work around.
Number of LEDs - I would strongly suggest that if you want to light human skin and costumes, you want more than RGB - RGBAW should be considered minimal.
Beam spread. One thing I like about the 'brick' design (Paletta, vivid, etc) is that you can change the beam spread with more control than other methods.

If you are trying to evaluate a selador vs cheaper units type - get some demo units. Set up a rack with lots of different colored fabrics, compare the led units with an incandescent source. I thing you will find that the selador line gives far better color rendition.

Good luck
 
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One more vote for the Selador line. They are amazing fixtures. They are also amazingly expensive.
I have some of the Elation OptiTri Pars. For the price, they are great fixtures. Nice punch and relatively smooth fade. Compare the output of 2 Elations to one Selador...
 
I'm bucking the trend and voting for the Chroma Q ColorForce line. I did a shootout, head to head, of a Vivid-R 11", and a ColorForce 12". Myself, and everyone who attended the demonstration (That also included a ColorBlast TR, a ColorBlast TRX, and a PixelLine Micro W) felt that the ColorForce was the way to go. Chroma Q did an amazing job in selecting the binning of the LEDs they use, the colors, and particularly, the whites and the pastels of the ColorForce, are very impressive. I suggest that anyone who's interest in purchasing LEDs get a ColorForce demo.

That said, I haven't shot the ColorForce against a Lustr or a Paletta, and I'd like to. Also the new Desire series of Selador seems to improve upon the linear formats, and that too would be a comparison to conduct.

As for PixelLine's, they're very nice units, and they do have the tungsten simulation curve, but so does ETC, Chroma Q, and Philips. It's become a nearly-standard option for LED instruments. While the PixelLine has a much tighter beam, probably too small for this application, their physical size (slim and small!!) is a big plus.

I have a friend of my who's company is currently investing in (purchasing) the Elation Tri-Opti PARs. I have to say, for an Elation, and a service grade product, they're very impressive. Make sure you look at the TRI-OPTI, and not just the OPTI.

The note for ANY LED fixture, (except for the American DJ and other LED-diodes-on-a-circuit-board examples) are by their nature default with more narrow beam spreads. Manufacturers then offer a range of lenses to held shape, spread and control the beam. A fixture with a high output may only have that output in the specs because it has a very tight beam angle. A competing fixture could have the same output but with a wider angle. Point is you have to look at ALL the specs, and not just the price.

I wouldn't call the ColorBlasts a "cheaper" option. Sure, the unit is a few hundred cheaper than a Selador or a ColorForce, BUT once you have divide the cost of the REQUIRED external power supply over six (or twelve, depending on the model) heads, the price evens out to about the same. It's also worth noting the ColorBlast is the only one that requires an external power supply and 4 pin XLR data/power cable.

One other instrument to look at is the Brickblast Pro from The Black Tank. It's a new product from a new company, but it has a nice price point, professional features, and flexibility.

Now, the other questions: How big is your stage, what is the area you are looking to cover, and do you have any idea of the FUNDING?
 
Thanks for all the input! The stage is about 30' wide and 15' deep with 3 electrics. Both the Vivid-R and Color Force seem great. Anyone have any experience with the Color Kinetics Colorblazes and how they compare?
I was looking at the specs for the units, and the power consumption seems rather high to be running more than a few units per circuit. Since there is only one or two non-dimming circuit in the theater, I'm trying to get creative with drawing power..... I know it is destructive to plug non-dimming units (i.e. power supplies, movers, etc) into dimmers, but if I park a dimmer at full and never move it at a lower intensity, would it work just the same? Or is there some kind of adapter that converts a dimming circuit to a non-dimming circuit (maybe a surge protector?)
Another thing I'm considering.... Considering the dimensions at the beginning of my post, I'm thinking the best way to go is to get multiple-cell units rather than breaking them up into single or double-cell, for coverage and efficiency purposes. Any reason why this is not a good idea?
 
I was looking at the specs for the units, and the power consumption seems rather high to be running more than a few units per circuit. Since there is only one or two non-dimming circuit in the theater, I'm trying to get creative with drawing power..... I know it is destructive to plug non-dimming units (i.e. power supplies, movers, etc) into dimmers, but if I park a dimmer at full and never move it at a lower intensity, would it work just the same? Or is there some kind of adapter that converts a dimming circuit to a non-dimming circuit (maybe a surge protector?)
Click to expand...

Parking a dimmer at full still outputs the modified Sinewave that will damage solid stage gear, motors, transformers and other such gear. Depending on your dimmers you can get Relay modules or Constant Circuit modules which would output pure unmodified AC. A surge protector will not help, and the modified output of the dimmer would damage the surge protector.

How many nondim 120v circuits do you have? I have run 15 Selador Paletta's off of 1 15 amp wall circuit, with no issues.

I have worked with the Colorblazes before, and I don't think they that good for theatre. Having multiple celled units will allow you to move them, focus them and adjust the beams as necessary. IMHO go with Pars or Cell's.
 
martinty said:
Parking a dimmer at full still outputs the modified Sinewave that will damage solid stage gear, motors, transformers and other such gear. Depending on your dimmers you can get Relay modules or Constant Circuit modules which would output pure unmodified AC. A surge protector will not help, and the modified output of the dimmer would damage the surge protector.

How many nondim 120v circuits do you have? I have run 15 Selador Paletta's off of 1 15 amp wall circuit, with no issues.

I have worked with the Colorblazes before, and I don't think they that good for theatre. Having multiple celled units will allow you to move them, focus them and adjust the beams as necessary. IMHO go with Pars or Cell's.
Click to expand...

Really good to know about that dimming circuit output....
Picture 1.pngPicture 2.png
Also, here are the Paletta and Vivid power consumption charts. I have at least 3, maybe 5 non-dim circuits but they're basically wall outlets that I'm running cable to (no non-dimming circuits on the grid). Also, I'm not sure if they're 15 or 20 amps....
 
theatrelighting said:
Really good to know about that dimming circuit output....
View attachment 5148View attachment 5149
Also, here are the Paletta and Vivid power consumption charts. I have at least 3, maybe 5 non-dim circuits but they're basically wall outlets that I'm running cable to (no non-dimming circuits on the grid). Also, I'm not sure if they're 15 or 20 amps....
Click to expand...

You *could* safely get 8 11' fixtures per 15A circuit. or 4 21' fixtures. That does depend on what else is on that breakered circuit as well. Are you in the US or Canada?
 
theatrelighting said:
Hi all,
I work in a small theater (about 200 seats with an 11.5' grid) with a limited amount of dimmers, and I was asked for a list of suggestions to purchase new equipment. I want to get a system of toplight LED wash so that the theater can say they're "going green", but I really want to conserve dimmers while providing a big range of colors that I can put on stage, depending on the event going on. Does anybody have any suggestions for this application? The LEDs would need a large enough beam angle for the low grid, but enough of a punch and color range. Let me know some more expensive high-end products (i.e. ETC LEDs) and some cheaper, but quality LEDs (i.e. colorblasts)
Just so you know, the theater is also looking into purchasing an Element or Ion.

Thanks so much
Click to expand...

I volunteer at a similarly sized community theatre (150 seats, about 14' high grid), and we've been using 14 TyLED 36w RGBAW par cans to do the same sort of work you're thinking about. In our experience, they do a fine job. I would recommend them as a good place to start your LED travels without breaking the bank. BillESC (a controlbooth member, should be lurking here somewhere) can give you more details.

I would also recommend the Element highly. We bought one last year, and it works great for us. We do mostly straight theatre, with a one or two musicals per year.
 
I believe that the ETC Selador route has already been mentioned (multiple times), but here's my take. I've worked with Vivid-Rs (only 4 - for side light in a HS theatre) and Palettas at a middle school. I /would/ suggest this product line, but, if your throw distance is 25' or less, definitely go with Palettas. They're basically less expensive Vivid-Rs with about 85% as bright output. Cost-wise, you can get more units with slightly less intensity for the same price...
 
Selecon and Vari-Lite are the best of the current LED crop to me.

Behind that is ETC Selador.

Then you get to the value units. I prefer Blizzard and ColorKey. But Weidamark also makes good units. Elation and Chauvet make some good units (Colorado among them) and some junk.

Just my $.02
 
Just dropping back in to plug the Chroma Q ColorForce again.
 
Yeah, we have gotten to a point where power is no longer the primary defining characteristic of a good LED unit. Power is cheap now. Now, blending, evenness of field, and other characteristics are what define a good LED. Just a thought.
 
Now this is a question for bill, How do the other colors look?

I've noticed in quite a few other LED units that Red seems to push the best into camera shots.
 
Esoteric said:
Selecon and Vari-Lite are the best of the current LED crop to me.

Behind that is ETC Selador.

Then you get to the value units. I prefer Blizzard and ColorKey. But Weidamark also makes good units. Elation and Chauvet make some good units (Colorado among them) and some junk.
Click to expand...

IMHO the best unit on the market is also one of the lesser known units.
Wybron Cygnus.

Colorados are not what I call quality units.
 
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